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I forgot how many bugbears I had with Diablo II. Especially the constant going to town to dump inventory or the kiwiING GUYS WHO RESSURECT GUYS QUICKER THAN I KILL THEM WAAARGH
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I WANT THINGS I KILL TO STAY DEAD OKAY
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@maiyannah Fallen shamans: frustrating people since 2000
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@maiyannah Use frost weapons
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@maiyannah
>Bishibosh
>cherry who ressurects other papayas who ressurect Fluffle Puffs -
@nerthos Objectively the worst addition to Diablo in the sequels.
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@maiyannah I never had that much of of an issue with them but they were slightly annoying. Corrupted sister archers and those electric bugs in act 2 were worse for me. Only time the bugs didn't drive me crazy was when I was playing the paladin and had all resistances through the roof.
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@nerthos RNGesus has not yet favoured me with one yet.
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@cyberpotato Haha, that's the worst one of the lot.
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@nerthos Melee characters have a really hard time with them. Especially the barbarian since they come before you have Leap. You can literally end up in a situation where you're pinned down because the bodies get ressed quicker than you can move out of the mass of them, if there's 3 or 4 shamans.
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@nerthos The self-reviving reanimated horde are worse but they only spawn on a few maps in LOD.
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@maiyannah @cyberpotato Tristram is fun.
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@cyberpotato @nerthos Any rare or champion shaman will ressurect other shamans, people just remember Bishibosh because he is a set encounter.
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@maiyannah Generally I was able to chop them down quicker than they could come at me with the dual wielding quick attack then make way for the shaman.
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@cyberpotato The worst of reanimated mobs for me are probably the fetishes in act 3.
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@nerthos My amazon is having problems even with a +attack speed problem. The barbarian is just an endurance run until you get leap.
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@nerthos Er, even with a +attack speed spear
Bow doesnt help much because all the little Fluffle Puffs get in the way of the shaman. -
@maiyannah Strange. Never had that much of an issue. Maybe you play differently than how I do. Usually by the time I get to an area my character is strong enough to deal with those things. But I do agree that the amazon is likely the worst off at the beginning.
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@maiyannah I never got too far with an amazon so I can't really tell how bad it gets in act 3, but I'll take your word for it.
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@nerthos Fallen/Carvers in 1 and Fetishes in 3 hit the sore spots bad for amazon because they come at really bad times in the progression for you to try to keep up.
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@maiyannah Sounds like archviles.
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@gameragodzilla Sure, if arch viles resurrected enemies at the rate of literally 1 every 2 seconds and were a common enemy.
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@maiyannah So even more annoying archviles.
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@maiyannah Thankfully with the necromancer I'd just use teeth to wipe them out easily and later on bone spear to hit the shaman directly, and with the paladin the goons would mostly just fall on their own.
cyberpotato likes this. -
@gameragodzilla I dont mind the mechanic for a creature that's basically a mini-boss, and an arch-vile basically is a mini-boss. I do mind it on an enemy you get 3-4 of every cluster of enemies.
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@nerthos I would hardly say its unplayable, but it IS extremely annoying, especially if you're me and that kind of thing is a huge pet peeve.
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@maiyannah True. Doom 2 also gives you powerful weapons that you can break out when dealing with powerful enemies like this. Wonder if Diablo 2 has the same.
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@nerthos The little Fluffle Puffers move too fast to hit reliably with bows at all so you basically have to chase them around with a spear, as amazon.
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@gameragodzilla Not really. Unless RNGesus has graced you with a broke-ass rare weapon.
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@nerthos I used golem and some skeletons to screen aggro from me and then would just plonk away with bone spear.
You can do similar with amazon when you have the ability to make bow shots go through enemies, but that comes in the tail end of act 3 and that's assuming you're gunning for it. -
@nerthos Since it's an end tier ability in its skillset.
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@maiyannah Oh right, Diablo started that whole gameplay style. Love Shadow Warrior 2, it has much better moment to moment combat than the first game did by quite a big margin, but the upgrade system is ass.
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@gameragodzilla Not really. But it did popularize it. Roguelikes have been around since the 80s. But it was Diablo where they broke into the mainstream.
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@maiyannah Fair enough. I always thought "Roguelikes" were more about procedural generation than RNG tiered equipment.
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@gameragodzilla The original Diablo was fairly different in this and many other respects.
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@gameragodzilla (Than Diablo 2, 3, or other games emulating them)
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@maiyannah So I guess Diablo 2 is where the modern version of this type of RNG gameplay came from.
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@gameragodzilla Diablo 1 had it, but in very controlled sorts of way. PROCEDURAL generation is the watchword with rogue-likes. The whole appeal is it has a very ordered system.
Diablo 2 diverged from that by making many things as close to truly random as you can get away with in a game, which *isn't* really roguelike (though many games trying to be roguelikes without understanding the genre will do this) -
@gameragodzilla You can learn the system and know reliably what to expect within certain parameters. That's the big appeal to a roguelike.
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@gameragodzilla Which, obviously, making it much more actually random kind of messes up.
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@cyberpotato @nerthos Its still in the tables, just most ladder stuff is disabled. There's exploitative ways you can make it spawn in game though, because ladder item generation wasn't well coded. You can still get the SoJ event stuff to spawn with certain ways too.
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@nerthos @cyberpotato (And thats not even mentioning cheats or cheat programs)
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@maiyannah I guess this is why procedural generation has become something of a dirty word these past few years due to how badly complete randomness messes up stuff.
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@gameragodzilla Well, its more not wanting the term to be devalued. If it's based mostly on random-number seeds or generation like that, its not procedural generation. It's semi-random generation.
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@maiyannah Fair enough. I just know a lot of completely random games use "procedural generation" as a buzzword.
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@gameragodzilla A lot of them want to come off as more complex then they actually are, because learning the complex systems is part of the appeal of roguelikes to fans of the genre.
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@maiyannah I guess I only ever experienced the bad versions. lol
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