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@ceruleanspark seen that.... Clint eastwood is best pony
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:37:09 UTC from web -
@ceruleanspark I find that sort of language only appeals to those who are already convinced
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Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:40:19 UTC from web
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@purplephish20 :D yeah.. it kind of falls on deaf ears when it comes to anyone who wants to understand the issue better.
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@pony It's kind of an agressive stance. If you don't come from the position of sacred marriage, it wouldn't be too bad :)
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:44:33 UTC from web-
@hakupony agreed. It's more likely to offend that group than others. In any case I find it only useful for rallying those who already support the cause
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@pony I find that remark particularly interesting. I suspect the two of us are both thinking "The issue is that he doesn't agree with me"
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@ceruleanspark we do feel differently about the isue, but I was commenting on the macro for its range of effectiveness.
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@pony Given that my bestest friend in the whole wide world is a homosexual and I am an athiest-by-default, my position on this issue should not come as a surprise.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:41:51 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark I was aware of your poistion, I just thought you might have meant that message for RDN in general
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@ceruleanspark @pony I agree that as great as it is to us, a quote by clint Eastwood isn't going to suddenly convince someone to stop being homophobic if that's what try believe, nothing will apart from sensibly demonstrating how homosexuality in any form is actually an ok thing, things like that picture are only preaching to the choir, making people like us nod their heads in agreement
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:47:25 UTC from web-
@purplephish20 You seldom convince the people who are against it. But there are people who don't have a set opinion on that topic.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:48:38 UTC from web-
@hakupony I know I'll never convince them, but I am barely cognizant of the reasoning behind it. I cannot see any personal belief as being sufficient to actively promote the oppresion of a large group of people. I just don't have the neurological scaffolding to comprehend it.
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@ceruleanspark Because many people want to tell other people how to live their lifes...
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:55:03 UTC from web -
@ceruleanspark I may be agnostic, but I can sort of understand it. It's because a lot (but not all) are arrogant enough to believe their religious text of choice should dictate the law, even if a lot of the stuff in it (I.e The Bible) is proven be to be complete bull...um...manure.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:58:36 UTC from web -
@ceruleanspark Even putting the religion aside, is not the belief that it is wrong what makes they thing it is something t be fought. It is the belief that it is a corruption that actively spreads if they allow it to exist. In a certain way they are wrong, and in a certain altough obsolete way, they are right. By prosecution they manage to make people hide their sexual preference, and even marry and sustain a family while hiding it; and that is the point: there are several documented cases of homosexuals marrying and their partner having childs of other men/women, and it works because even if it is all just a façade, they still grow those children who eventually become part of the society. That's the whole point of prosecution as seen as to have a benefit to society. Of course you can interpret it in others way if you like to.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:05:55 UTC from web-
@nerthos If we want more peope, we just have to open our borders. There are more than enough people on this world.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:08:10 UTC from web-
@hakupony Yes. There are more than enough, but the vicious work to perpetrate the species remains. It's why I said it's obsolete. Just in the last century the need for more people has subsided.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:09:41 UTC from web-
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@pony lol
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:12:07 UTC from web
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@nerthos One of the main problems of our world is that some societies have way more people as they should - and these countries are known to punish peope if they are not sexually "normal"...
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:15:25 UTC from web-
@hakupony The point is, to fix the overpopulation issue there's no need to dwelve into those things. The solution is just forcing criminals to work until they're dead. Almost free workers, less population, and less crime. Everypony wins.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:16:56 UTC from web-
@nerthos Wouldn't really work. Ifyou kill more, more babies will be born.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:17:55 UTC from web-
@hakupony You can actively control the rate of birth in a county. Vasectomy is a really simple and reversible thing.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:22:13 UTC from web-
@nerthos This is where I lack knowledge.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:23:20 UTC from web-
@hakupony Vasectomy is basically tying the conduct by wich semen comes out during coitus.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:31:01 UTC from web-
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@pony Yeah, I confused the words. Sorry.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:38:53 UTC from web
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@nerthos In addition: who defines what is illegal? Your line of thought is exactly what Germany und the Soviet Union did - and those were no nice places to live.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:20:57 UTC from web-
@hakupony Yes, that is the main problem. Law and justice are not the same, and they should be related but they aren't. Though trying to institutionalize justice would never work, since there are few who can properly understand and carry it; and since it's very nature is complex and case sensitive, you can't write down justice. The only way to enforce justice in a long term would be by having an immortal righteous overseer, but we lack the technology to do that, and by most of the species it would be seen as brutal and cruel since most are very... loose in terms of morals. Only a portion of the population is able to live under a regime of absolute justice, since it requires absolute resolution to follow it.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:26:38 UTC from web-
@nerthos and would it be a better life? Like you said - most people are not absolutely just and I don't want these people to die.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:29:11 UTC from web-
@hakupony As a matter of fact, I strongly believe that it would indeed be better. Justice should be above all, be it happyness or whatever. I might be a zealous paladin, but by living by that justice, I'm sure not to harm anyone who doesn't deserves it.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:34:56 UTC from web-
@nerthos We had this discussion before :)
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:35:52 UTC from web-
@hakupony Yup :)
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:36:20 UTC from web-
@nerthos And now - why should you call it "marriage" when it is between man and woman? Just use a neutral name and let them marry at their church if they want. Everypony wins.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:38:12 UTC from web
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@nerthos Yet through the same philosophy an legality, there are places in the world where homosexuality is outright punishable by death, Uganda for instance, their legal courts recently made a pledge to "kill all the gays"
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:08:56 UTC from web-
@purplephish20 There are more soft and more extreme ways to see things. Some think that "corruption" must be dealt with by violence.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:10:45 UTC from web -
@purplephish20 In certain arab countries the "punishment" is burial alive. So really, Christianity and its various sects are quite civilised in that they confine their persecution purely in the legal system.
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@ceruleanspark I heard the punishment was being stoned to death... Or was that adultery?
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:11:41 UTC from web-
@purplephish20 It probably varies from sect to sect to be honest.
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@ceruleanspark @nerthos Homosexuality still carries a worse punishment... I'd say being buried alive would suck a lot more than being killed in the space of a few minutes by a mob of over 50 people... Thats how they do it
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:15:34 UTC from web-
@purplephish20 I'm not arguing that point. Yet you know very well that I see this whole issue as merely a discussion topic, as everything else. Mostly every outcome is just a foreign event to me. I like the topic because of the complex philosophical and psychological processes that cause it, not because of involvement or compassion.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:21:23 UTC from web
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@purplephish20 That's adultery.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:12:24 UTC from web-
@nerthos @ceruleanspark In all honestly, even the silliest things change in terms of what's morally wrong, no more than 70 years ago I believe being left handed was seen as a mental illness and teachers used Capitol punishment to force the child to correct it
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:17:39 UTC from web-
@purplephish20 Probably not capital punishment. That's the death sentence.
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@purplephish20 You mean corporal punishment. Capitol punishment is death.
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:19:04 UTC from web-
@nerthos @ceruleanspark yes i mixed the words up... i thought capitol punishment just meant physical punishment in general (pain) not just the death sentence
Tuesday, 08-May-12 13:19:52 UTC from web
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@purplephish20 I don't remember the details, but it wouldn't surprise me if the penalty for fornication in the law of Moses were death. I think it is, but don't quote me on that
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@purplephish20 @hakupony It's exactly like any other political propaganda in that it polarizes people. I think the well-educated and otherwise skeptical pony would see through the pathos of the message though, and without that, it's not very convincing
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@ceruleanspark Stephen Fry just posted this on Twitter, I love it :)
Tuesday, 08-May-12 12:51:02 UTC from web
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