Conversation
Notices
-
I am watching the Daily Show with Ron Steward right now ( episode of thursday ) Gotta love CNN :), I am almost glad we do not have American CNN on Dutch cable
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:12:05 UTC from web-
@widget Which is exactly why I laughed :D
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:28:18 UTC from web -
@widget They're both atrocious. CNN could be considered worse because it just fails at making any concrete point at all. Fox is unabashed right-wing propaganda. CNN doesn't know what the f*** it is.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:30:31 UTC from web -
@critialcloudkicker Who is Ron Steward?
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:32:49 UTC from web-
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:44:15 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker That would be Jon Stewart.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:45:30 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Jeally ? Naw I think you are roshing me
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:47:12 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
@widget But they have holograms man! Holograms!
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:33:20 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel They also have a robot. It's name is Wolf Blitzer.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:34:44 UTC from web-
Excuse me... *its* DX
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:35:02 UTC from web
-
-
-
@widget Well, Beck isn't even on Fox anymore. And O'Reilly is just a pinhead. I just can't watch Fox because I'm far too progressive to think that anything that they say makes any sense.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:36:31 UTC from web -
@widget No, even their regular "news" segments are filled to the brim of propaganda. I have tried on multiple occasions to watch them, and I just can't do it.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:38:37 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Well - you need to be retty supid to think that Fox News was neutral.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:44:49 UTC from web-
@hakupony They have the power to influence elections rather dramatically. That says quite a few unflattering things about the general population.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:47:05 UTC from web
-
-
-
@widget Advocating political positions either directly or indirectly when "reporting", selectively omitting key information to make people think a certain way, and outright deceit.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:42:45 UTC from web -
@widget All with the goal of furthering one specific agenda (namely, Rupert Murdoch's)
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:44:35 UTC from web -
@widget There is a difference between having an ideologic standpoint (who everyone who talks about stuff like politics has) and giving u neutrality completely. However, I don't think Fox news does much harm because onle the people sharing their ideology take it serious...
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:48:50 UTC from web-
@hakupony In a sane society they would be unable to do much harm. We are not living in such a society. Fox's harm is both measurable and substantial, with their ability to sharply influence elections quite well-known. To use a current example, for this current election process, it has been observed that poll numbers for GOP frontrunners have aligned rather neatly to whichever one Fox is trying to sell at that time. It can be tempting to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in the face of strong evidence it's become abundantly clear that such optimism in the common populace is woefully misplaced.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:53:59 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I'd argue that Fox is just a symptom. It can exist because society is insane and its power is only based on this insanity.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:55:47 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel In addition - I would always vote Democratic in the first place - just because it's not the GOP
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:00:10 UTC from web
-
-
-
@widget Which is why I've stopping paying attention to the news.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:49:03 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Personally, I still watch the news, but I watch it online via The Young Turks. They're as neutral without sacrificing the facts as I've seen in the media.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:50:12 UTC from web-
@alptraummond I deduced it is the best way to listen to both sites.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:53:54 UTC from web-
@hakupony Yes, you have to listen to both sides. But you also have to know what the facts and what the reality are. Sometimes reality reflects a certain side's position on policy or whatnot.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:00:32 UTC from web-
@alptraummond It's not about them being right or wrong - it's about them not telling you all the information.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:01:31 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
@widget I don't frankly see how Mitt Romney can win given how openly anti-everyone he seems to be, but I couldn't predict Bush getting reelected either.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 12:57:38 UTC from web -
@widget In fact, I care because it's resulted in a GOP so radicalized that it no longer seems to represent anything at all other than "oppose the democrats on everything, even when they agree with us, even if it means opposing what we said ourselves yesterday" when out of power and "how much of the country can we break" when in power. At this point, I think the whole party needs to just be wiped clean and start again with people who remember what they used to stand for.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:01:11 UTC from web -
@widget I bet you could not namme one simple position where the GOP represents what I think is right - and independants unsually have no chance in a westminster democracy.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:03:02 UTC from web-
@hakupony Well, in other Western democracies, they can. Like in Germany or France. But the UK and US do primarily have a two party system, which does suck.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:07:13 UTC from web-
@alptraummond That's because we don't have a clean first-pass-the-post system. I usually vote for the Green Party but the Left arty also gets my vote occasionally :)
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:09:10 UTC from web
-
-
-
@widget Honestly, I'm voting neither for Obama nor Romney. I'm doing what is considered the "stupid thing" in American political culture: voting for a third party candidate. I know Romney's positions and think they're dangerous; I think Obama isn't nearly progressive enough to get this nation back into the right place; and I just don't think voting for Obama is what I'd like to do.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:03:27 UTC from web -
@widget The Health Care/Obamacare debate. Specifically the Individual Mandate. That was originally a Republican idea (starting with Nixon, done by Romney in Mass., supported by Gingrich), but now that Obama has co-opted it, the Republicans rabidly want to repeal it. Fortunately they didn't get their way.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:06:02 UTC from web -
@widget I wish I could, but as I stopped paying much attention to this crap I don't have anything immediately handy and don't care to look anything up. Regardless, I am not trying to convince you of anything, merely to share my own stance and answer your question of why I care.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:06:40 UTC from web -
@widget I thought it was Ron Paul.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:06:50 UTC from web -
@widget Sorry, that is correct. i mean a system with first-past-the-post elections
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:06:54 UTC from web-
@hakupony Actually, not all Western democracies have first-past-the-post elections (Single-member district plurality elections). Germany and the UK, in part, have closed list proportional representation elections.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:09:34 UTC from web-
@alptraummond I am very aware of the German political system and what effect it has on the party system - I did study this subject for two Semesters
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:11:27 UTC from web-
@hakupony O: That's awesome. I wish I could learn more about Germany and the UK's political systems, but I'm an English major... so I kind of have other priorities. XD
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:13:50 UTC from web-
@alptraummond Well - the books on that stuff that are very easily understandable I know all are in German. But we can talk about such stuff when you're curious.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:16:06 UTC from web-
@hakupony Thanks for the offer. I'll make sure to come to you if I do ever have any questions. :3
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:18:13 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
@hakupony FPTP is pretty horrible, and likely at the root of many of our problems although education is another significant factor at play as well (this latter one ties into why Fox is so powerful here).
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:10:34 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I'd agree on that. Most social problems could be solved by better education - including criminality and health issues.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:12:31 UTC from web
-
-
-
@widget Rocky Anderson is running on the Justice Party platform. If he's on the ballot, I'm going to vote for him. He's a progressive from Utah.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:08:01 UTC from web -
@widget If you're talking about the polls saying that it's unpopular, I can tell you those are misleading. When questioned about the several parts of the bill separately, the bill is actually quite popular.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:11:26 UTC from web -
@widget Your optimism is adorable.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:12:27 UTC from web -
@widget The part about pre-existing conditions is popular. The coverage of young adults until the age of 26 under their parent's health insurance is popular. Only the mandate is unpopular. Universalizing the system (single-payer system) would work much better, though I'm not sure how popular that actually is.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:16:28 UTC from web-
@alptraummond Or you coud copy the idea wellfare system before it got ruined: everyone has to be member and ay based on the solidarity principle.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:18:36 UTC from web-
@hakupony Exactly. What bothers me about the U.S. and health care (amongst other things) is that there's no solidarity with others one's community in terms of policy. Everyone thinks that they can handle their own stuff and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. That's an illusion. You can pull yourself up sometimes, but sometimes you need help from outside sources.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:21:29 UTC from web-
@alptraummond Well - there is the neoliberal dogma "You make your successes and failures yourself and there is noone else to blame." - a dogma which heavily influenced the "american dream".
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:24:08 UTC from web-
@hakupony "It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" --Carlin
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:26:28 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel If you know someone who is similar in style as Carlin, then tell me. He was awesome.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:28:48 UTC from web-
@hakupony Lewis Black used to be, but lately he's really been slipping. George Carlin was unique, and truly the best.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:31:32 UTC from web
-
-
-
@hakupony See, the "American Dream" isn't something that is even fully attainable. You can get close to it, but even if you do get there, it's not a stable environment to live in. It's not as pleasant as people make it out to be.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:27:44 UTC from web-
@alptraummond Fro american position (and those of many germans), I'm a socialist. So you don't have to tell me.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:29:59 UTC from web-
@hakupony By the standards in the U.S., which is where I live, I'm faaaaar to the left. I consider myself a democratic socialist.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:33:48 UTC from web-
@alptraummond I think we might become good friends.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:35:08 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Really? :O I like the sound of this. :3
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:36:23 UTC from web
-
-
@alptraummond @toksyuryel And so the RDN left alliance was born :P
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:36:36 UTC from web-
@hakupony @toksyuryel Yay~ :3
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:39:05 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
@alptraummond I don't like the idea that the whole thing is based on insurance to begin with but I'll take what I can get out of this government.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:21:23 UTC from web
-
-
@widget How do I put that in english? It is not that much about what you know but on how you perceive and relate to the world. A pedagogics which encourages curiousity and helps develping a critical perspective.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:22:20 UTC from web -
@widget But imagine if you were that person who had gotten knocked down and people told you didn't deserve help. But, you know that you did deserve it and that you didn't put yourself in the position you found yourself in. There's a thing in psychology called the Fundamental Attribution Error, which states that we blame others for their mistakes and attribute it to their character, but when we suffer from the same pitfall, we blame it on external causes beyond our control. That seems to underlie purist libertarian ideals and your logic. How do you know they didn't deserve help?
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:31:50 UTC from web -
@widget It's worth analyzing *why* they appear to do it better, and see if it's anything that can be fixed.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:37:59 UTC from web -
@widget Well, yes. But they can't do that on a large scale, can they? Charity can only go so far. Charity and non-profits aren't bad, but they're severely limited when it comes to distribution of benefits.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:38:22 UTC from web -
@widget But why can't it do that? Analyze deeper ☺
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:39:38 UTC from web -
@widget For me, it is not about charity, but about security. I can count on not falling too deep which gives me better possibbilities to find a job I actually enjoy to do and that is decently payed. Or about education: My family is not exactly rich, still, I want to have the same possibilities to study as rich people - because i don't want my chances to be defined by birth.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:41:00 UTC from web -
@widget But again, the local level can't do widescale reforms, such as health care. A state can try to do them and be relatively successful. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for federal government to take predominance. I'm just saying that it can do certain things better than state and local governments.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:41:23 UTC from web-
@alptraummond The bigger a system is, the better it can balance out when there is temorarily higher demand. The problem is that you need a stucture in which the big system lifts the weight while the small system organises stuff.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:48:09 UTC from web-
@hakupony Organization huh? What we need is Twilight Sparkle!
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:48:46 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel That's a good exammple - Princess Celestria didn't need to organise the Celebration on ep1 herself :)
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:51:30 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
@widget So if the solution is to just use a different approach, then a government solution can be feasible ☺
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:43:27 UTC from web -
@widget I won't deny that it's infeasible with *this* government, but I don't believe that in absolute terms government solutions are always infeasible. Nothing is ever that simple.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:44:39 UTC from web -
@widget We should always be working towards a more perfect world instead of simply trying to deal with what we have now or worse going backwards.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:46:34 UTC from web -
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:48:32 UTC from web
-
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:49:24 UTC from web
-
@widget Those rules should be based on reality, not ideology.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:50:37 UTC from web -
@widget But you're saying that based on an ideology.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:52:35 UTC from web -
@widget But charity and welfare aren't the same thing. One is given by individuals, the other by the state. One is voluntary, the other is compulsory and based on solidarity of all individuals in a society.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:53:12 UTC from web -
@widget But, you're making a really broad generalization there based on an ideological standpoint: libertarianism/conservatism. Government doesn't do everything right, but it's necessary and it can do things properly at least a portion of the time.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:55:08 UTC from web -
@widget I don't believe either of us are in a position to say what the government can or can't do in absolute terms.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 13:55:10 UTC from web -
@widget But that doesn't mean it *can't* do it right. You need to learn not to speak in absolutes all the time, and consider things as possibilities rather than as definites. Only through deep analysis (and I want to emphasize *deep*) can you discern which of the possibilities is more likely to be the case.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:00:24 UTC from web -
@widget It doesn't do health care correctly? How come it's worked everywhere else with some (understandable) debt? You know what this (the U.S. government) doesn't do correctly? Military spending. It's ballooning at an astonishing rate while people struggle to eat and support their families. Those billions of dollars could be going to social welfare programs to help improve our nation's health. But, no! Apparently our obsession with war is too strong to quit building absurdly strong weaponry when we've already outstripped the rest of the world in terms of military strength.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:02:10 UTC from web -
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:02:28 UTC from web
-
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:03:49 UTC from web
-
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:04:50 UTC from web
-
@widget > implying that appointments don't take months to get through the system we have anyway
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:06:08 UTC from web -
@widget Yeah, the UK has problems, but not every system is the same. You have to consider that the model of universalizing health care might be a better alternative than just leaving it laissez-faire to the free market.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:06:58 UTC from web -
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:08:47 UTC from web
-
@widget Quite often there either is no "somewhere else" or all of them are equally bad or worse. If you aren't going into the ER or urgent care, you get to wait a long time for help.
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:11:23 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel @widget MRI?? mass Repulsion of Intestines?
Friday, 29-Jun-12 14:14:09 UTC from web
-
-
