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Apparently it's wrong to be a pessimist. Grow up already and smell the ashes.
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@renovatedkitchen Stop. Hatin' is bad. One more shot for us. Another round.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:04:30 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin I don't hate everyone. I'm just not an optimist because things rarely work out in ones favor
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@renovatedkitchen they may not, but it is truly awesome when things do go your way!
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:27:36 UTC from web-
@techdisk when they do I'm grateful. But when they don't, as per usual, I am already disappointed so it doesn't sadden me.
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TIL: Same-sex marriage is actually not legal in Germany or in most of Europe. And there I was, thinking we Europeans were past all this nonsense but it seems we're no better than America here...
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:30:20 UTC from web-
@omni Is it specifically illegal?
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@fortecadenza It's not recognized as a "real marriage", but as a "partnership". It's fairly close, but it just isn't the same. This probably has to do with the fact that churches still seem to be very important in Germany. At least all adults I've talked to seemed to be religious. So, long story short, you can legally be recognized as a gay couple but not married and are missing some small benefits straight married couples can get.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:36:25 UTC from web-
@omni Hrm. That's weird.
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@omni When are we going to reinstate the separation of church and state so this no longer matters?
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:43:30 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I hope soon. Church and state is already completely separated in The Netherlands. We were also the first country to legalise same-sex marriage, as far as I know. Even though our economy may not be the best right now (but let's be honest, whose economy is?), I am fairly proud of this country I live in.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:46:36 UTC from web-
@omni If marriage still exists as a legal concept at all, then they aren't fully separated.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:48:16 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Our marriages are done by the government. The church can also do "marriages", but they aren't officially recognised. I guess I kinda get what you mean, but right now our version of "marriage" is pretty much just two people writing their signature on a piece of paper and the government writing them down as a registered couple in their administration.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:49:45 UTC from web-
@omni Well, with the exception of the name that's the ideal situation then.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:51:20 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Words change meaning over time. Even though the term marriage was originally a religious term, it barely has any religious roots any longer here. As a rather extreme and basic example, the furry term "yiff" changed from a friendly greeting to a term to describe sexual events with and nobody will really think of the old term anymore. Changing a word which has been used for so long will be quite hard, so it's more likely the definition will just slightly change over time.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:54:09 UTC from web
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@omni We do have the distinction of a civil marriage (this carries the benefits) and a religious marriage (this does not, though any religious ceremony also includes the civil ceremony), but continuing to use the word "marriage" for both has resulted in a lot of religiously-based opposition to the part that isn't religious at all.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:54:59 UTC from web-
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:57:33 UTC from web
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@omni That sucks... I mean, we're no better here yet, but at least all the major parties are in support of a bill which would rectify that (even if the deadline they've given themselves means it could be 2015 by the time any such bill actually become law). As best as I can tell from following the issue, Germany has no such plans. :(
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:45:37 UTC from web-
@bitshift It's good that the mayor parties are in support. I'm just wondering why this is a problem at all. It's affecting your life even less than someone wearing a hat in public. And do we have laws against wearing hats in public? No, we don't =/
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:48:35 UTC from web-
@omni The UK system is, despite improvements in recent decades, still built entirely on top of a religious base. And said religion espouses the sanctity of marriage as an opposite-sex thing only.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:51:34 UTC from web
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@bitshift Isn't Scotland on the ball re: this?
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:51:39 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin I believe both Scotland and Wales intend to push similar bills through sooner, yes.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:52:16 UTC from web-
@bitshift I thought Scotland had already done it.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:53:50 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin I hadn't heard that, but it's quite possible it just slipped under my radar.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:55:39 UTC from web -
@thelastgherkin Ah, there we go. Looks like they're fast-tracking the bill, but it's not actually passed yet . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18981287
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:56:58 UTC from web
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@omni Although as Toksy said, separating religious marriage from the legal benefits would be a much more sensible step, and entirely obviate any need for that lesser solution.
Friday, 09-Nov-12 14:48:24 UTC from web
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