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Personally, if given power over a country I'd crush whoever tries to sabotage it and turn the state into a profitable machine aimed towards generating enough money to sustain itself, by eliminating bickering politicians and VIPs, and tightening concessions as a means to acquiring important bussiness for the state, so that many products consumed by the population and/or exported are produced by enterprises managed by the state, so that profit is aimed solely at bettering the machine and funding public expenditure. At one point that would allow for tax reductions since the state would earn basically the same money it spends. But then again I'm not a politician, I'm more of an emperor and I don't particularly care about shady arrangements to profit like the politicians do, and I'd have to silence permanently many of those politicians who would inevitably try to convince the population of the typical evil tyrant story so that they can go back in power and make money.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:03:36 UTC from web-
@nerthos I had a feeling that reading past "if given power over a country" would make me groan. I'm groaning inwardly
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:07:51 UTC from web-
@pony How so? That post basically explains how to make a country self sufficient so that people can recieve all the basic benefits without needing to pay massive taxes. Also if the state controls many enterpries, there's always jobs available for the people. Without political parties, there's no preferences nor shady dealings when hiring workforce, the only thing that matters is qualifications. And since that model requires efficient bussiness, and is manned by the population of the country, qualifications are given as much as possible by making education accessible to everyone.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:13:35 UTC from web-
@nerthos The same things as usual bother me about your philosophy. The ends neither justify nor condemn the means. The ends and the means are one and the same. If you conduct business in shady venues (assuming they're called "shady" for good reason), and suppress opposition by force you're setting the nation up to be one that oppresses and promotes shady dealings. The right course is far more difficult, expects turbulence along the way, and relies heavily on faith-promoting ideals..
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:21:26 UTC from web-
@pony You are assuming that by eliminating those who would cause problems I mean leading a campaign to put millons to the sword, while what I actually mean is to just erase political leaders who are involved in shady dealings. The system I'm proposing relies entirely on not allowing shady dealings inside of it. The machine must be completely neutral in regards to faith, because otherwise the place left by the removed politicians would be filled by preachers and other religious leaders. Let the people decide their faith by themselves and the state stay uninvolved.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:28:12 UTC from web-
@nerthos I assumed you only meant key figures, not millions. The key figures represent millions however. Those key figures who conduct business in shady venues and hurt the government need to be dealt with openly, shamed publicly and removed from office by the people, not by other means, otherwise you take away the people's voice. THat's part of what I meant by opression.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:35:33 UTC from web-
@pony Oh, I do like to do things publically. In the measure in which it's possible, of course. It MUST be showed that the government opposes shady dealings publically, otherwise it doesn't work.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:38:53 UTC from web-
@nerthos that's good, but only part of it. Like I said, unless their removal is done and a solution to issues is found by the people, the people will wind up powerless in the end. Some peoples are willing to be powerless, and others are not. My culture is one that has long resisted its people being powerless. Lots of turbulence of course...
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:43:12 UTC from web-
@pony It can't be done by the people alone, the current world situation is proof enough of it.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:44:57 UTC from web-
@nerthos hence why there has to be dependence on pure faith, the kind untainted by will for personal gain, etc. In almost every instance I've noticed vast reform requires the blood of many men both good and bad.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:48:21 UTC from web-
@pony I like idealism as much as the next man, but unless you manage to get your god to manifest physically, you're going nowhere. The best you can do is start another pointless crusade and slaughter innocents. I'm more concerned about the future of the species than fueling the feelings of self-worth of a bunch of people.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:51:56 UTC from web-
@nerthos He must manifest himself to his people. He must be an active God, a constant, loving, just, all-powerful, merciful God of order. His physical manifestation is important, but not as important as the spiritual.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:57:05 UTC from web-
@pony With only the spiritual manifestation you will accomplish nothing. After tens of thousands of years of god worshipping we're as poorly as we were in the start. Let's quote the bible, "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed"; men must solve the problems of men. God's domain is the spiritual realm, the physical realm is the responsibility of men.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:01:47 UTC from web-
@nerthos The physical and the spiritual are intrinsically connected. The spiritual can and does give people the power to affect the physical. God intends to instruct us so that we can grow, but alone we
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:05:57 UTC from web-
@pony Then let god show himself and instruct us.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:08:43 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:10:14 UTC from web
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@pony Nope.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:16:33 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:18:58 UTC from web
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I think I got derailed somewhere in there.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:09:47 UTC from web
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@nerthos alone we would live and die without purpose. In times of need, through faith God manifests physically as well. We may or may not agree on this point. I'm not sure.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:07:41 UTC from web-
@pony I think the survival of the species is enough of a purpose.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:10:29 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:17:31 UTC from web
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@pony My concern is not what's after mortality. Living as cattle just awaiting the release of death is not living.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:20:09 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:22:49 UTC from web
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@pony It is what you propose. Spend our lives telling people how to prepare for death. I'd rather tell them how to avoid it, how to postpone death.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:26:13 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:29:13 UTC from web
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@pony We will live to be 80. We have a choice in regards to our offspring. Will they live to be 80, or will they live to be 90? We can either spend our lives preparing for death like the pharaohs, or we can spend them allowing those who will replace us to live longer.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:32:46 UTC from web-
@nerthos Why not both? I could explain why death is necessary for our eternal progrgress, but I think that might not be received. Anywaylongevity is good, but a miserable life is hardly worth prolonging. We should live happy and prepare to die happy.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:38:09 UTC from web-
@pony Instead of worrying about death I'd rather worry in making humanity's progress towards practical godhood faster.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:41:40 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:04:46 UTC from web
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@pony He isn't going to give us practical godhood if it hasn't happened by this point.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:06:46 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:07:38 UTC from web
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@pony By your words he gives godhood after death, but that's as useless as having nothing.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:09:34 UTC from web-
@nerthos Eternal life after death and godhood to those who were valiant for Christ specifically.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:11:35 UTC from web-
@pony But the fact that our world hasn't changed shows that it's not particularly useful. As a species we can already shape life and we're not even spacefaring yet. If we manage to survive without nuking eachother long enough, we'll be able to shape the universe to our will. That's practical godhood.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:14:20 UTC from web-
@nerthos ah you mean immortality (and invulnerability) in this sphere of existence. There'd be no use for it here in our present state. In fact, God placed cheribum and a flaming sword in the way of the tree of life (which you can take symbolically or literally I suppose) so that we would never become immortal while we're in a fallen state. In order to regain grace we must all die. I don't understand why fully myself yet except that some things just make sense. We would be trapped in this lower sphere if we couldn't shed it through mortality. There's something much greater in store than this.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:21:16 UTC from web-
@pony I'm not talking about immortality as humans, that's pretty hard to get. I'm talking about evolving beyond what we are now. If God placed cherubim with flaming swords, then we must simply create a champion for humanity, a better swordsman than the cherubim, with a stronger blade.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:25:13 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:28:08 UTC from web
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@pony If nothing can stand time, then it's simply a matter of changing the nature of time. All laws can be rewritten.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:30:44 UTC from web-
@nerthos I mean that individuals in this world, without death and God, can't be raised to a greater state. Time may or may not be relevant, butIdisagree that all laws can be rewritten unless you erase the premise of our very existence. Certain laws are immutable or we, and God, would cease to exist.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:35:29 UTC from web
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Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:12:13 UTC from web
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@nerthos I'm likely to live to be older than 80 because of my religious dietary guidelines and lifestyle.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:39:35 UTC from web-
@pony I probably will too, but I'm just talking about averages.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:42:01 UTC from web-
Friday, 04-Oct-13 13:04:15 UTC from web
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@nerthos I also count physical intersession without appearing as a type of physical manifestation.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 12:00:05 UTC from web
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@nerthos And we all know people are too fond of the idea that anyone with absolute power is inevitably evil, and they believe that both due to their own ambition and greed and because governments can't allow someone to take complete power due to what I mentioned being a possibility.
Friday, 04-Oct-13 11:08:02 UTC from web
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