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@rwdigest @rw as much as i like online, social worlds, it's just a fancy interface for regular communication. gnu social, imageboards, (((discord))), and whatever else you want to think of, is just IRC with more or less features. and IRC is just an email list but more real-time. i've played so many damn video games that i've started to "see the code", and i don't think i'm alone in this. it's easy to recognize systems and variables and how things work, and it keeps me from seeing what the devs want me to see. it loses the magic, and illusion, and it's hard to see as more than the sum of its parts. so i think if we replace life with a FrankerZty video game, the illusion of life will be impossible to keep up. furthermore, what's the Fluffle Puffing purpose? this would be neat for social interaction, but the buck stops there. any form of science, maths, engineering, any of the Potato Knishes that actually matters, is based intimately on the natural laws of the universe…
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@why @rwdigest great reply, you're not wrong at all. The prime use for VR will be empowering our current systems not replacing them. Digital retirement homes and workplaces are what should be feared. But creative spaces for interaction should be embraced for the medium
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@rw @rwdigest but digital retirement homes and workplaces are the next step after online coffee shops and dance clubs get normalized. "trendy" workplaces in SF will be the first to implement it, and it'll be something you read in a magazine while in the waiting room at the dentist's office, and you'll laugh and think, "oh silly silicon valley, those nerds." just how you read that 20 years ago about how some companies have their employees work from home. slippery slope is not a fallacy, it's the way of life
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@why @rwdigest that's my point. Facebook wants it become the norm because you live in that environment, it becomes your life. I still want to be able to disconnect but if your F500 company requires you to use the software - that's where it begins.
I wanted to paint of picture of what will happen if VR takes off the way those social industries want it to.
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I stopped reading novels after I read "Gravity's Rainbow." It just became annoying hearing some dweeb (the author) drag his stage machinery back and forth behind the curtain.
One reason I still like "Dhalgren" is because the machinery was a visible part of the plot: no sneaking it around behind the curtain, no wrenching it into unnatural positions for the "ending plot twist." Zelazy's Chronicles of Amber are much the same: since the philosophical points of the novel are *in* the novel, the action flows much easier. (That said, Ganelon is a major weakness of Amber's latter half. "Lord of Light," though, is completely free of such contrivance.)
@why @rw @rwdigest-
@somercet @rw @rwdigest i think this can happen with any artistic medium. there was a short story by Mark Twain, i think, where he was mystified by the magic of a river boat. then once he learned how to drive one, all the things he once saw as beautiful he sees as hazards, or normalities. this is probably the same effect
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@why Most of this makes complete sense, but there's one thing I notice with people around here. Extremism in this. While of course it'd be idiotic to go the facebook way and completely merge IRL and internet life, I think the concept that both have to be entirely detached from eachother is not only ridiculous, but also paranoid and jerkish. It needs a degree of moderation. Sure, don't go around giving your address to everyone you see on a public site, but I think that absolutely refusing to let both social circles touch is paranoid towards the IRL group, as it basically says "I don't trust you all to show how I actually am" and insulting to the internet group, saying "it doesn't matter if we've known eachother from 8 years, I'm never getting a drink with you on the basis that you're an internet acquaintance".
A degree of moderation should be exercised on that separation, keeping loose IRL contacts outside the internet, and letting close internet friends into IRL eventually.Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 11:41:09 UTC from web-
@nerthos @why I've been going with this philosophy for years, having my brother and some friends that aren't imbeciles aware of my internet life and sites I hang out on, and meeting with people I've met online if distances allow it after enough closeness. I've also never abused internet immunity to be a dick because I can get away with it, considering that a shameful behaviour, nor I've tried to "act normie" IRL, gladly getting in the same kind of chat I'd get on here with IRL friends and being just as honest. It has never given me any trouble at all, which means an absolute separation is not really needed.
Of course if you're a troll online, and want to pretend to be the most normal guy IRL so everyone likes you, it can never work, but trying to keep two completely different personas based on how consequential a annoying someone by speaking your mind can be in each circle shows a lack of confidence on a person's ideas and worth, and a slight lack of maturity.Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 11:48:21 UTC from web-
@nerthos
>a lack of confidence on a person's ideas and worth, and a slight lack of maturity
I wouldnt want it any other way-
@why Eh, really I think people should try to find a middle ground, even if they won't actually do much in the way of getting both social circles together. Learn how to not be a dick just because you can and to also be more honest IRL so that they're not stilling their tongue half the time just to preserve their image. If done by enough people it'd be a positive cultural change that'd allow better conversation in both planes.
Also people should learn that they don't NEED to be liked by everyone, even people they dislike, nor that they need to antagonize anyone who disagrees. Life is much more pleasant avoiding those two extremes.Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 12:09:28 UTC from web-
@nerthos its not like im dishonest on either fronts, or putting up a facade. Its simply natural for me, due to aspects of how the inteactions work: i can edit my message and look up facts online to check my validity, but can do neither irl
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@why That's a fair point. I mostly avoid that by never engaging from a position of assertiveness if I don't know what I'm talking about.
Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 12:25:31 UTC from web-
@nerthos and the internet is great for that, but real life has other things. For example, subtleties in speech and body language won't ever be perfectly emulated
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@why Yeah, but IDK, I guess those are so natural to me that I never take them into account. More so having grown used to notice the same hints online from speech patterns. Kind of like my node's admin learned how to tell all those things consciously to be able to perfectly interact with people even with aspergers, which made him one of the best people at figuring intent online.
Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 12:42:14 UTC from web-
@nerthos @why Maybe I'm just cripplinglynormie but I feel like I lose a lot from not having body language cues. Even things like watching the flickers in someone's facial expression to tell if they're lying or looking at their posture to tell if you're making them uncomfortable.
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@trev @nerthos @why I feel like I lose a lot from not having body language cues…when talking to people in person. I never really learned them.
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@takecherryakenji You can always learn them now. It'll take effort but it's never too late. It's not much different from going to another country and getting used to the customs.
Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 12:49:24 UTC from web-
@nerthos I've pretty much given up on it at this point. I have enough in life to deal with as it is.
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This is probably why I have trouble making and keeping friends IRL.
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@trev On the internet you're basically an aspie by default, so you have to learn to tell by wording. Since often there's a lot of options on how to say the same thing, which one is chosen and how points are linked tells you all about a person's intention when writing it.
It's more fun than direct interaction because you can't use body language to instantly guess everything nor to change the other person's perception of you. It's way too easy IRL to emulate body language to steer the other person's disposition.Wednesday, 22-Feb-17 12:53:04 UTC from web
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