Conversation
Notices
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Am I the only one worried that so many activist organisations have supporters' personal data stored by corporations like NationBuilder?
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@strypey I used to be in the #IWW. This was one of the contributing factors in deciding to chuck it in: http://www.iww.org/guides/branch/socialmedia
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@strypey I emailed the guy responsible for this initiative, asking why he wanted to build the FBI a hit list. He replied we unfortunately had to use these tools "until we seize the means of production". What means of production?! We have them already sitting on our desks!
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@mjd in this case people have already chosen to give their data to a corporation and the IWW is trying to subvert this to recruit them
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@mjd what worries me more is organisations placing data people have entrusted to *them* in corporate-hosted platforms like NationBuilder
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@mjd the most extreme case I've seen is the NZ Greens entering the entire NZ electoral roll into NationBuilder!
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@strypey I see it more as encouraging #IWW members to join #Facebook et al., and to expose non-members as having activist sympathies. I can't imagine the NSA wouldn't be glad of the assistance.
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@mjd that's a risk, but it depends what the #IWW actually use #FarceBook for. If it's only outreach to non-members, what's the problem?
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@strypey During WWI IWW members in #US, #AU and elsewhere were rounded up and imprisoned (or worse) in large numbers. If the NSA has Facebook's data on members & sympathisers of activist groups, why wouldn't it be used in some future process of "extreme vetting"?
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@strypey "The protests are outta control. Causing huge problems. Bad. Tough measures have been used in the past. I would be willing to use far worse. We're looking into it. We're looking into a lot of things."
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@mjd sure, it's a risk, but using networked comms at all puts us at risk of surveillance.That's not in itself a reason not to use them.
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@mjd especially because *not* using them in societies where most people *do* makes dissidents stand out like dogs balls
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@strypey I know Wobblies who do everything (since the 1970s) pseudonymously. Sure, intercept an email and figuring out who you are from that isn't hard, but you need to make some effort and know pretty much who you're looking for.
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@strypey But enough metadata constitutes data, and Facebook et al. have enough metadata. Stick a Facebook widget on your site, and identifying your visitors is just a database query for the NSA.
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@mjd true. Would you object to a button for the #IWW FB page that was just an ordinary linked image, not a "widget"?
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@strypey Sure. The preamble to the #IWW constitution is about "forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old". The new society requires #GNUSocial. http://www.iww.org/PDF/Constitutions/CurrentIWWConstitution.pdf #BoomBoom
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@strypey You can't agitate, educate, organise withing #Facebook. FB does the organising, and determines which, if any, users hear your agitation and education, as #Schneier (via you) observes. http://qttr.at/1pm3
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@mjd GNU Social is more a replacement for Twitter or Slack than for FB. #Hubzilla gets closer to the range of functions that FB includes
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@strypey I dunno. I set up a #Facebook account a couple of years ago to check out #Drupal integration and just thought "Is this it? Is this what all the fuss is about?" The vanity value of feeling important enough to be surveilled appears the killer feature.
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@strypey Damnit. You started me looking into this again. Here's "Eben #Moglen on #Facebook, #Google and Government Surveillance" a year before #Snowden and right on the money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJCczbSF-B8
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@mjd again, I'm not defending FB. But good luck transitioning people to good replacements without listening to what needs it serves for them
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