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Petty bandit hideout? Sure, 54Km of underground tunnels, with castle-sized halls. #DaggerfallLogic
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:17:57 UTC from web-
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@bitshift Petty bandits who unconciously open pocket dimensions under Daggerfall. Those dungeons don't even fit in the whole province.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:30:49 UTC from web-
@nerthos Perhaps (given it's in the same continuity) they unwittingly opened a gate to another plane of Oblivion.
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@bitshift Maybe, yet those planes of Oblivion share the same time and relative physical location to the province of Daggerfall. Also there are only two guys on the lore of TES who can travel at will between planes of Oblivion, and at that point it would be safe to assume Divath Fyr was the only one alive. I refuse to belive that guy died on the Black Marsh revolt, like the rest of the Telvaani did. he was far too powerful to die to some slaves.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:36:53 UTC from web-
@nerthos You presumably had to pass through some kind of door to get in there, and it's established canon by the time of Shivering Isles that doors to another plane of Oblivion do not have to look like anything special.
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@bitshift Yeah, but that doesn't mean some bandit could just enchant a hole in a rock to become a gate to Oblivion, much less create their own realms. To open a gate to Oblivion, you must first acquire an unmarked sigil stone by trading with a daedra, and then summon the daedra prince of the plane you want the door to lead to and convince him or her to engrave his/her symbol on the sigil stone. Otherwise a gate to Oblivion won't hold long enough to be useful as an entrace, no matter how powerful the mage.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:44:14 UTC from web-
@nerthos If the door was opened by one of the Daedric Princes, and then that realm was then somehow claimed by bandits, it could work. (For example, because Sheogorath himself opened the door to the Isles, it remains open indefinitely, with no need for sigil stones and such.)
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@bitshift But a door opened by a Prince would lead to his own drealm of Oblivion, a great example is the one you pointed. Then again, at the time of Daggerfall, Uriel Septim VII was on the imperial throne, with the Amulet of Kings on his neck, and the Dragonfires of Akatosh lit, so even for a Daedric Prince opening and mantaining a stable door at that time would be an extremely straining feat. Sheogorath and Dagon opened gates at will because there was no emperor.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:51:53 UTC from web-
@nerthos Hrm, that [i]is[/i] a good point. In that case, I'm at a loss as to an in-canon way to explain the giant bandit hideouts. (The out-of-canon one is simple; they're separate maps, and were made rather larger than was appropriate.)
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@bitshift The main problem is that those dungeons have the same textures over and over again, so it's really easy to get lost. Yet Daggerfall had multiple endings in different points of the chronological line, all explained in-lore by the action of the Numidium and a Dragon Break, so it's a pretty confusing game.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 18:58:05 UTC from web-
@nerthos Oh yeah, I forgot that there was a Dragon Break contemporaneous to Daggerfall. :o
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@bitshift The Dragon Break was the result of the events of Daggerfall. But the bad dungeon design can't be really explained by any lore xD Also I didn't know you were a TES nerd. I tought Flaxx and I were the only ones here.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 19:01:17 UTC from web-
@nerthos Ever since I read pretty much every book I found in Morrowind (pre-Imperial-censorship The Real Barenziah, oh my), I just can't help myself. :p
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@bitshift Haha, you made me remember the Real Barenziah discussion on TOP's #WolfQuest stream. The books on TES games are one of the best parts. That and playing house decorator with items.
Monday, 06-Aug-12 19:35:16 UTC from web
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@nerthos Still leaves lots of questions, like why one of the Princes would open a door and then abandon the plane it led to, but it is certainly possible, if not probable.
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@nerthos And any old mortal can use those doors, so no need to be able to cross the planes at will. (Still raises the question of how the bandits stumbled upon such a door, but that is at least more feasible.)
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