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Without cooperation by the vendor they can't do that without publishing their signing key.
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@diesch could they not just say “if the vendor sells it illegally, the vendor loses the right to distribute it”?
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@arnebab This is the problem: Canonical doesn't *want* to say that. They would rather just allow the vendors to keep selling it, so they can keep getting paid.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 07:42:32 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel phrased differently: Canonical wants to allow vendors to take away my freedoms by exploiting a weakness in GPLv2.
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@arnebab It's not that they want to do that, it's that they view that as an acceptable outcome if it means they can sell more units.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 07:50:43 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel so they don’t mind selling my freedoms. Quite the opposite: They actively work to enable others to do so.
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@toksyuryel it would be easier for them to simply use GPLv3 software. They choose not to, because they prefer enabling others to betray me.
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@arnebab They value profit over freedom, that's all it's ever been and they've been doing it for years. Maybe more people will start to realize it now.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 07:59:29 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel they value their profit over the freedom of their users…
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@arnebab Exactly.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:22:58 UTC from web
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@toksyuryel Never trust a company → http://ur1.ca/9qo4y — they have to take money first.
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@toksyuryel If you speak German: My resolution: Economy is always war—as much as we customers allow it: http://ur1.ca/9qo53 !politik
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@arnebab @toksyuryel Well - in a capitalist system companies are expected to primarily care for their profit. In my opinion, it would be naive to expect they would not act the way our system eductaed them to do...
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:04:24 UTC from web-
@hakupony @arnebab The key mistake of capitalism is that it places profit above ethics. But companies still have the ability to choose ethics over profit and as consumers we have the power to condemn those companies which do not choose such.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:08:03 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I wouldn't call it a mistake per se - it values efficiency above all else and this what it achieves. The problem with ethics is the lie: any companies try to tell you how "ethic" their stuff is just to maximise profit - and because of competention, you often need to do such stuff to survive. If there is a way to be sure that the product is ethically okay, I usually choose it though - but often you just lack reliable information.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:13:19 UTC from web-
@hakupony I call it a mistake; ethics should always be the top priority in any economic system.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:24:24 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel The other position would be that the reason for an economic system would be to organise the production and distribution of goods. If it works efficient, you "produce" more joy as if it is less effecient. So the most efficient system would be the ethically best one. I personally think that there should be political regulations who force econom to act ethically while economy itself should be based arount efficiency.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:32:55 UTC from web-
@hakupony I contend that aggregate joy is less important than minimum joy.
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:39:37 UTC from web
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@hakupony debian manages to avoid that - because they are organized democratically. I hope more and more people will remember this…
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@arnebab I'm not sure... democratic organisation does not inherently mean that the decitions are ethically good. I don't have the hard facts, but usually, a competitive market structure forces you to "otimmize" your production processes - often at the cost of some values which are not important for profit. That said, I still like the concept - I recently read a text of a company built arount the concet of "liquid feedback" like the one pirate parties use...
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 08:28:07 UTC from web-
@hakupony democratic organizations inherently do what the folks who vote consider right. Competition mainly forces you to follow the rich…
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@hakupony (democracy fails where the voters have wrong information, for example from rich-owned monopolistic mass-media…
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@arnebab You know - for reasons like this you could call me a socialist
Saturday, 07-Jul-12 09:17:52 UTC from web-
@hakupony maybe just call you a real democrat: wanting uncorrupted democracy?
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@hakupony For some background see the brief history on plutocracy: ur1.ca/9qofo
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„Sehen Lehrer Schüler bei Aktionen, die zu Sex führen *könnten* und stoppen sie nicht, können sie verklagt werden“ …USA → ur1.ca/9qof8
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@diesch the *vendors* are not allowed to sell GPLv3 stuff in boxes on which people cannot install modifications.
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@diesch Canonical can just give the vendors unlocked devices. To lock down the devices, the vendors have to provide a way to unlock.
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