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  1. @xj9 Addendum:
    - We should aspire to a world where the manufacturing process for computers and related technologies benefits all people who are involved.

    Thursday, 15-Dec-16 17:55:57 UTC from gnusocial.de
    1. @xj9 I should say: is a net benefit for all people involved.

      Thursday, 15-Dec-16 17:58:26 UTC from gnusocial.de
    2. @csaurus And for some reason "benefit of all who work" is so damned controversial.

      Thursday, 15-Dec-16 18:38:35 UTC from MuSTArDroid
      1. @scribus We live in a society where the powerful classes pit different invented "factions" against each other so that they won't become organized enough to be a threat. We're so addicted to consumption that the idea of our products becoming more expensive seems worse than actually addressing human need. That's the point of capitalism IMO. To divorce ourselves so much from how and where goods come from and the people that made them that we never need to feel a sense of justice towards them. If you like to read, I recommend David Graeber's "Debt: the first 5000 years" - it gets into this and is available on archive.org.

        Thursday, 15-Dec-16 18:57:12 UTC from gnusocial.de
        1. @csaurus That actually sounds quite fascinating, as long as the read isn't too dry.

          Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:04:07 UTC from MuSTArDroid
          1. @scribus It's largely a history book, Graeber's an anthropologist. I am not, but still found it to be very readable. His main thesis is that credit systems developed before money, whereas popular history describes credit as a development of physical money, and that ascribing specific numbers (dollar amounts) to credit is what allows creditors to exploit debtors so well. But beyond that he gives a large number of how humans have handled the issue of value/debt in a number of historical contexts which is really cool and provides a history of how various religions have handled the issue of usury. (spoiler alert: before the 1700s or so they more or less strictly forbid it).

            If you like history I'd say give it a try, you can download the e-book for free anyhow :) I wouldn't mind having someone to discuss the ideas with if you decide to as well. 

            Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:11:44 UTC from gnusocial.de
        2. !anarchy ♻ @csaurus @scribus We live in a society where the powerful classes pit different invented "factions" against each other so that they won't become organized enough to be a threat. We're so addicted to consumption that the idea of our products becoming more expensive seems worse than actually addressing human need. That's the point of capitalism IMO. To divorce ourselves so much from how and where goods come from and the people that made them that we never need to feel a sense of justice towards them. If you like to read, I recommend David Graeber's "Debt: the first 5000 years" - it gets into this and is available on archive.org.

          Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:07:43 UTC from gnusocial.no
        3. !anarchy aaaand here is the # :-)
          https://archive.org/details/al_David_Graeber_Debt_The_First_Five_Thousand_Years_a4
          CC: @csaurus

          Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:09:44 UTC from gnusocial.no
          1. @majestyx @csaurus this is an amazing book.

            Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:12:30 UTC from social.heldscal.la
          2. @majestyx @scribus Majestyx was kind enough to link :)

            Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:13:46 UTC from gnusocial.de
          3. @majestyx @lambadalambda @scribus

            That actually looks like a preview? Here's the full text version:
            https://archive.org/details/Debt-The_First_5000_Years

            Thursday, 15-Dec-16 19:17:26 UTC from gnusocial.de
            1. ♻ @csaurus @majestyx @lambadalambda @scribus That actually looks like a preview? Here's the full text version: https://archive.org/details/Debt-The_First_5000_Years

              Thursday, 15-Dec-16 23:49:22 UTC from gnusocial.no