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Of course my strategy for a street fight is avoid if all possible (covers 99.99% of times), and use a gun if necessary.
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@gameragodzilla If someone is already in striking distance with a knife, a gun is pointless.
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@maiyannah True. Though I have seen people develop quickdraw techniques where shooting from the hip at that short distance means accuracy is mostly a non-factor. Of course I never been in any situation where I can tell if such a technique is effective or not
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@gameragodzilla
By nature of street fight, you're not likely to be using a gun.-
@katiekats @gameragodzilla The one guy who pulled a gun in a fight when I was homeless got a knife through the side of his neck and out the other side.
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@katiekats @gameragodzilla The gangbangers downtown in Ottawa don't banana around. I just avoided them.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats I cant even remember what they were fighting over, but that particular image was, er, vivid enough, it stuck in memory.
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@maiyannah @katiekats Yeah I can imagine.
So what would be the, err, "proper" way to deal with a knife wielder at close range? Disarm? Just run the papaya away?-
@gameragodzilla @katiekats I'd need an image to illustrate best but there's a nerve in your arm that if you strike it causes your hand to spasm and release, it's best to strike for that if you know where it is.
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@katiekats @gameragodzilla Also keep the outsides of your arms and legs towards the opponent(s), the insides are where the vessels and veins are.
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@maiyannah @katiekats I wonder if being fat would actually help survive knife wounds or if that's just a joke
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats You're actually more susceptible. Skin and muscles are softer.
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@katiekats @gameragodzilla Also less adrenaline and testosterone in the system to tank an injury if you get one.
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@gameragodzilla Skin is more stretched, and fat is really soft. The wound would be bigger rather than give you any protection.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 15:45:03 UTC from web -
@gameragodzilla @katiekats by like a milimeter or two. It isn't going to make a difference unless they're attacking you with a box-cutter or something.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats Usually about 6 inches in the USA. I'm too tired for a metric conversion lol.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats In general, what self-defence classes will teach you isn't how NOT to get injured. You are going to get cut in a knife fight. It is GOING to happen.
What they will teach you are ways to minimize the damage, places its less fatal to take it, how to arrange your guard to deflect blows best, and how to best disengage to get yourself to safety.
My upper arms look like a satellite map of Baghdad after they US missile strikes lol. Because the outsides of the arm are one of the most relatively safe places to take it if you must.-
@maiyannah @katiekats Interesting, albeit painful sounding.
Though in those cases I wonder if I could also wear some kind of armor or knife resistant clothing to further minimize damage. I'd imagine police and military have those-
@gameragodzilla @katiekats Stabproof vests exist but you're not going to find those as a civillian.
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@katiekats @gameragodzilla And they're made for penetrative strikes, not cuts, which are more common in a knife fight anyways.
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@maiyannah @katiekats Shame. I'd figure there should be some kind of arm guards you could wear underneath your sleeves that might help but I dunno
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats Well there's nothing stopping you from going medieval and just getting some metal bracers forged.
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@maiyannah Might just do that. XD
I'd imagine I'd be pretty tough to injure in full on plate armor in knife fights-
@gameragodzilla Chainmail is still used around sharp knives to these days.
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@maiyannah Yeah though I wonder if I could buy those knife resistant clothes to just wear as normal. As effective as metal armor is, it's rather conspicuous if I walk down the street decked out like a White Knight
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@gameragodzilla Just wear some bracers that protect the outside of your arms and you can deflect with those really. Wonder Women's approach isn't impractical in that respect :P
(Dont try deflecting bullets with them IRL though)
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@gameragodzilla Just get a metal tshirt and some metal bracers with leather padding. Metal tshirt with that stuff = instantly fit in haha
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@maiyannah Hardcore looking and effective lol
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@gameragodzilla As long as you're not knocked down, plate armor would make you a terminator in a knifefight. But it's added weight if you do get pushed. Easiest way to kill a knight was to make them fall and sneak a dagger between the joints or the helmet. It's not too useful if you don't have at least one person by your side.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:04:56 UTC from web-
@nerthos True and plate armor isn't as effective against firearms I think. Still, better than nothing I suppose
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@nerthos @gameragodzilla Full armour is a liability. All they have to do is shoulder check you and you're done.
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@maiyannah It's only useful without a weapon in formation so yeah.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:08:52 UTC from web -
@maiyannah @nerthos I can imagine the weight being a pain and a half to manuever in, though I've also seen people perform acrobatics while wearing 'em.
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@gameragodzilla @nerthos Try getting up in plate mail that weighs as much as you do, and doing so quickly enough to avoid being stabbed up.
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@gameragodzilla @nerthos Depends on size, but it's usually well around your own body weight.
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@gameragodzilla @nerthos It restricts your movement a lot as well. Check out Skallgrim's videos on armour, he demonstrates.
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@maiyannah @nerthos I should watch his videos more often. The main ones I've looked at are just ones about video games or movies, like the one on how laser sword fighting might work
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@gameragodzilla The one about gauntlets and how they limit hand movement is particularly enlightening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpurFCdTaqY
(Not sure why this is unlisted, he has it in his out Armor playlist)-
@gameragodzilla *his own
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@maiyannah This is a weird mangoing example but it was the first thing that came to mind: is that why Darth Vader's lightsaber techniques are very slow and rely on strong attacks in comparison to other Jedi?
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@gameragodzilla Basically, the suit's designed to be annoyingly restrictive to wear.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:25:43 UTC from web-
@nerthos @gameragodzilla Then again it also makes him physically stronger so he compensates with that.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:26:32 UTC from web -
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@gameragodzilla Due to palpatine being a dick mostly.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:27:02 UTC from web-
@nerthos @maiyannah Yeah yeah but it restricts his movement so he uses a different sabre technique than other more nimble Jedi right?
Says a lot about my sword knowledge when the first that came to mind was Star Wars-
@gameragodzilla You'd almost immediately get a feel for why a lot of HEMA sword styles are the way they are if you wear the appropriate armour.
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@maiyannah @nerthos Half swording is still the one I had the hardest time believing due to the whole "cut your hand on a blade" thing but apparently it's a real thing. I see video evidence of it
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@gameragodzilla If you're wearing gloves you won't cut yourself. A sword that sees battle won't be too sharp, a lot of the cutting relies on impact and momentum.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:33:00 UTC from web-
@nerthos @maiyannah I saw him do it barehanded without issue. Wonder if that's due to swords not being as sharp as I thought or if there was a proper hand holding technique
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@gameragodzilla What @maiyannah said. The lower part is mostly used for grabbing and parrying while the point was for cutting and piercing.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:35:16 UTC from web
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@nerthos @gameragodzilla If you have a dull sword, you may as well be using a mace.
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@maiyannah I'm not saying dull but it's not a razor after a while in the actual battle. It won't cut through a glove if you're holding the sword by the blade and being careful.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:38:08 UTC from web-
@nerthos If your blade is not being kept with a proper edge, you're a FrankerZ knight. We've had the oils and stones to keep them properly sharp since at least 920 AD.
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@maiyannah "after a while in the battle" as in having hit a bunch of people and shields.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:40:41 UTC from web-
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@nerthos Pattern-welded blades from the picts are early as 1000 AD easily had about the same retention as 940C high carbon stainless we have now.
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@nerthos If you don't want to take it from me, LindyBeige has several videos that touch on the subject.
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@maiyannah I'm not arguing against you, just saying that you can hold a sword by the blade with gloves without losing a hand if you aren't idiotic with it.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:46:06 UTC from web-
@nerthos @maiyannah The Codex Wallerstein has a few images of half-swording with various German longswords, some sharpened to the full length and some not. I don't have any personal experience with that particular sword type, but it looks like from the illustrations they're just grabbing the (ostensibly sharp) middle of the blade to use it for leverage against weak points in armor
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@nerthos you talking about half-swording?
Yeah, it's legit
Western Style swords are not as sharp as kitchen knives
they have an edge but not enough to cut through an average human's hand with just standard grip-forceTuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:42:49 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla Two handed swords had the bit with the second quillions because they were a guard for your second hand when half swording.
The start of the sword isn't sharpened. Just past the second quillions.
See for eg https://community.highlandarrow.com/attachment/120370-
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@gameragodzilla @nerthos Ever wonder why some swords are depicted with a part of the blade near the base that is unsharpened? That's why.
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@gameragodzilla @nerthos Yes, it was used to aim and direct the blade point for thrusts between the plates in full mail armour.
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@maiyannah @nerthos was it usually at the base like that? Seems like in that case you might as well get a longer handle?
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@gameragodzilla Some swords did indeed do that. But mostly they had a flat in the blade. It allowed a knight who didn't half-sword to just sharpen it and have more blade.
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@maiyannah So the unsharpened part was towards the middle of the blade that could be used either for halfswording or sharpened?
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@gameragodzilla The blade I showed you in that picture is taller than I am. The second set of quillons is about two and a half feet ish in.
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@maiyannah Ah, perspective is always off on an image, unless there were measurements I missed lol
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@gameragodzilla no its just a close up picture of the part I was meaning so you could see :)
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@maiyannah Ah fair enough heh
So would the blade between the handle and the half blade section also be unsharpened so only the front half is or is it just one small grip that's unsharpened?-
@gameragodzilla It depended on the knight. It's also why you'll see swords with much larger or smaller areas like that as well. People had different preferences and knights had swords made to order after all!
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@maiyannah Ah the perks of being one of the high class combatants. lol
Peope like me just get a spear -
@gameragodzilla Think of it like a baseball bat - some people need to choke up on it to get a feeling of proper control, others are fine gripping it normally. Same goes for swords. Especially as they get longer and thus more unweildly as the center of balance gravitates from just before the handle to further out on the blade.
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@maiyannah Makes sense.
Wonder if there were medieval equivalents of mall ninjas who pimped out their swords wih unnecessary bullFrankerZ-
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:53:50 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla Longer handle changes the way you have to grab it, the unsharpened part is for finer control in specific cases.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:41:49 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla It restricts his movement but gives him more strenght and also makes leg and arm movements barely drain any stamina, being robotic, so he adapted to a stronger, slower style than the one he used before. He can't match them on speed so might as well use the fact that his arms and legs won't tire to overwhelm others.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:31:17 UTC from web
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@maiyannah @gameragodzilla Gauntlets are pretty bad for fast precision movement, and that's talking from experience.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:20:52 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla Anywhere between 20 and 60kg depending on the type and quality.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:13:35 UTC from web-
@nerthos @gameragodzilla Even more with the padding and all that.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:13:53 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla It's not an issue for maneuvering if it's well done and you know how to move in it, but it weights a bit so if you can get overwhelmed it won't help too much. If you have a sword or axe or whatever that has a certain reach, then yeah, it's incredibly useful, but not with knives.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:12:53 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla You could make bracers with inlaid steel thread. It'll be annoying to make but with some padding and a steel mesh or scales you'll be more than capable of taking hits without damage.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:02:05 UTC from web-
@nerthos Wonder if there are any for sale. Gotta be a market for this kind of protection
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@gameragodzilla Well I thought about using the concept to make slice-proof backpacks to sell to people afraid of thieves.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:05:43 UTC from web
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@gameragodzilla Lamellar armor. Basically immune to cuts. You'll only get away with wearing that without being noticed in winter though.
Tuesday, 28-Feb-17 16:00:27 UTC from web -
@gameragodzilla @maiyannah @katiekats
This mini-series might interest you about knives...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iez9_muKGdo&t=0s-
@sim @katiekats @gameragodzilla I remember seeing that one in reply to Skallagram back when youtube video replies were still a thing.
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@maiyannah @gameragodzilla @katiekats
Haha! I think it might still be a thing, and it's a great thing. I would like to see more of it... especially when it comes to being informative.
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@maiyannah @katiekats Ah I see. I've seen some Krav Maga videos say that if you bend someone's hands inward along their wrists, you would cause their grips to loosen due to the way your wrist muscles work.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats Thats not a great strategy unless the tactic you want to adopt is "get stabbed in the hand"
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats Inside of the arm about an inch on average from the elbow, where the muscles kind of attach to the bone, it causes those muscles to spasm and they're connected to the palm of the hand.
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@katiekats @gameragodzilla Striking there keeps the hand more away from the knife than trying to pull back the hand. The latter will work but it puts you at great risk.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats Not if they give you an opening. If you jump back, their arm is going to be extended. You want to try to draw them into reaching. Most self-defense classes teach techniques for this.
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@maiyannah @katiekats Ah that makes sense.
If we ever meet up, you should show me some of this stuff. Heh-
@gameragodzilla @katiekats I would be glad to if we ever got the chance.
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@gameragodzilla @maiyannah
If you're -that- close, chances are if you turn to run you're a bit dead.
I'd generally go with disarm, but that's me talking and I've...experience so.
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@gameragodzilla @katiekats If they see you go for a weapon they aren't going to wait and ask what you're doing, they're going to strike, as quickly and efficiently as they can manage.
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@katiekats Yeah probably. I just care about not dying/being beaten up so I'll cheat as much as possible
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