1. >“It is important for the military to have a gender equal profile,” he added.

    why is that actually important. pretty sure it is not.

    Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:15:31 UTC from
    1. @moonman PR reasons, I guess.

      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:16:45 UTC from
      1. @takebananaakenji @moonman US Army Inc.

        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:32:06 UTC from
    2. @moonman Military shouldnt care about anything but how well you can shoot and follow orders under fire.  Anything else is inconsequential.

      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:17:49 UTC from
      1. @maiyannah yeah.

        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:18:17 UTC from
        1. @moonman The discipline part is what a lot of women have problems with, for complex psychological reasons that come down to predominant personality types in the female sex having problems with authority.

          Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:19:47 UTC from
    3. @moonman Gotta get that PR, lowering the strength of your country's bulwark is irrelevant.

      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:17:50 UTC from web
    4. @moonman it's always important in sweden

      we have voluntary military service for women here, while men get conscripted, I'm not exactly convinced that having women on the field is much of a benefit for the overall performance of the platoon. in my platoon we had 1 woman who was also a squad leader, it was fine, she did her job well as told without extra fuss or drama, but before that in training they were bringing morale and overall performance down more than anything. having lower standard to enter hard stuff, not being able to keep up with the rest, causing betacucks to orbit around them

      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:22:47 UTC from
      1. @shpuld @moonman Having different standards for women has never not ended up being a huge morale issue.  In CAF it's one unified standard for everyone, as IMO it should be.

        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:26:23 UTC from
        1. @maiyannah @shpuld in the US they are just lowering standards and pretending its because the previous standards were unnecessarily strict and not because 80% of women couldn't do them.

          Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:27:59 UTC from
          1. @moonman @shpuld In case you're curious, here's the FORCE standards for the Canadian Armed Forces, 100% practical and you have to retake it every year while in active service unless you have a medical reason you're unable to at which point you must take it as soon as you're returned to active duty:


            It is the same for both men and women.

            You may be given some accomodations for certain roles that do not see active duty however, such as chaplains or legal officers.

            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:30:11 UTC from
            1. @moonman @shpuld (They like to bang on a lot about Universiality of Service but basically there's a lot of exceptions Im aware of being made.)

              Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:33:29 UTC from
          2. @moonman The US's last standard review was hit and miss really. It lowered some in this regard which is stupid, but also established a threshold of performance well above the minumum requirement past which a soldier's weight is irrelevant, so as long as you can pass those tests and prove you're fit for duty you can weight 150kg of muscle or fat without issue.

            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:30:16 UTC from web
            1. @nerthos @moonman One of the problems with the previous standard (at least with the USMC but I assume elsewhere, but the US military people I know are Army Rangers and USMC so those are the two I have good knowledge of) was the weight standard didn't take in to account you can be "overweight" without being unhealthy if you're a very active weight-train-y sort of person.

              Hell I've been overweight a couple times in my life for that kind of reason, not that it takes much at my height, the margin between underweight and overweight is like 20 pounds. 

              Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:35:58 UTC from
              1. @maiyannah @moonman Basically, yeah. It was to avoid having people being deemed unfit for duty for weight when they in fact far exceeded the requirements.
                I mean, I weight about 80kg with an average lifestyle, if I did exercise to bulk up I'd probably be around 100kg or so which is generally considered overweight.

                Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:38:29 UTC from web
                1. @nerthos As an aside, Canada is so weird about that - we use feet and inches and then pounds, the imperial height and weight measurements, and literally everything else in metric.

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:42:04 UTC from
                2. @nerthos More so considering my uncle and grandfather when they did very manual labour were outright buff, to the point my uncle got a bad cut on an arm once and the muscle ripped in two swole "lips"

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:43:57 UTC from web
                  1. @nerthos When I first got clean from cigarettes and that, I basically turned that addiction into a working out addiction.  100% healthier for me anyways.

                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:47:15 UTC from
                    1. @maiyannah I could never understand addiction really. I generally can't do anything religiously, even if I enjoy it.

                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:47:49 UTC from web
                      1. @nerthos When you have adverse medical effects for not doing it, it tends to reinforce the behaviour, but certain forms of exercise released the same body chemicals as the smoking, so it was a good and healthy way to wean myself off of it.

                        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:51:16 UTC from
              2. @moonman @nerthos Literally no US forces member I know really cares whether women fight alongside them or not .... if they can pass the same fitness standards they did.  What they resent is feeling they have to carry the weight of underperforming members that get special treatment.

                Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:41:19 UTC from
                1. @moonman @nerthos That said as a woman myself if I felt that I only got in because I received special treatment that'd be pretty upsetting tbqh.

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:43:57 UTC from
                2. @maiyannah @moonman That's an issue in every area really, just that in the case of a real war (not talking 20 hours a day of base and 4 of patrol, but actual engagement with days long combat) fragging starts to happen due to this.

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:42:10 UTC from web
                  1. @nerthos @moonman This is why combat psychological training is SO FrankerZING IMPORTANT.  The libtards are trying to do away with it in the states too, calling it "hazing" and the like.

                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:45:11 UTC from
                    1. @moonman @nerthos If you have someone who breaks in combat, they aren't just a threat to themselves, they're a threat to the whole Fluffle Puffen operation.

                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:45:39 UTC from
                    2. @maiyannah @moonman Well, I'd say that maybe they'll reconsider when officers start exploding but knowing them, I don't think that'll happen. They'll probably blame it on "problematic behaviour of whites" or something.

                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:46:25 UTC from web
                      1. @nerthos @moonman Libtards gonna librard

                        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:49:08 UTC from
                        1. @maiyannah Funny thing would be if they went the extra mile and sent political commissars, and those were the ones fragged.

                          Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:48:46 UTC from web
                3. @maiyannah @nerthos I would suspect there would be problems in some cases, but I would take the word of an active serviceman over my feelings.

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:50:31 UTC from
                  1. @moonman @nerthos You aren't supposed to make it into the USMC unless you're the Best of the Best TM.  So imagine what it does for people's morale when they see someone getting special treatment

                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:52:09 UTC from
                    1. @maiyannah Funny how the best of the best is mostly guys fresh from highschool that draw more dicks than they shoot bullets

                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:53:19 UTC from web
                      1. @nerthos @maiyannah They have experience in... Other areas though.

                        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:56:36 UTC from
                      2. @nerthos Oh USMC has a well-deserved reputation, honestly, they are among the most effective fighting units in the world.  But the last .... I want to say five years? have seen quite a downturn in quality due to the lowering of standards to shoehorn in women.  Moon ain't wrong that it's had negative effects.

                        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:56:58 UTC from
                        1. @maiyannah What I really don't get is why they're called marines if nowadays they're mostly a land-based force rather than actual marines.

                          Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:56:04 UTC from web
                          1. @nerthos @maiyannah SPACE MARINES

                            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:59:40 UTC from
                            1. @cyberpotato @nerthos Well, the marine tradition actually comes out of the British Navy deciding the army was mango at actions from a ship and making their own specialized elite fighting force, so it's not entirely an inaccurate descriptor.

                              Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:01:15 UTC from
                          2. @nerthos Tradition, mostly.

                            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:59:29 UTC from
                            1. @maiyannah I suppose. It's pretty counter intuitive though, as one would expect marines to be... well, ship-based infantry for sea-to-land engagements.

                              Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:58:58 UTC from web
                              1. @nerthos well that is how they started out and military with traditions always has been the perfect mix.

                                Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:59:59 UTC from web
                                1. @awl I suppose. I actually wonder how well the USMC would perform nowadays in their original role after being in the desert for the last 15 years.

                                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:01:22 UTC from web
                                  1. @nerthos or the jungles for the last 50, but hey, I'm sure they get their sea legs in the landing craft.

                                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:02:36 UTC from web
                                    1. @awl @nerthos If they didn't have them before, they had them after.  Or a lot of gravol, hah!

                                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:05:21 UTC from
                              2. @nerthos Nowadays the Navy has another-another specialized elite unit for that (the Navy Seals)

                                Why they needed that when they had the USMC originally, is anyone's guess, but it's why the USMC has kind of migrated to another role.

                                Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:02:55 UTC from
                                1. @maiyannah I thought the navy seals was a tactical force for boarding or mostly water based engagements, while the marines was a mid point between that and army, mostly to make beachheads and such from warships with naval support as they operated in land.
                                  Basically navy-swat vs ship-based army

                                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:04:13 UTC from web
                                  1. @nerthos Well that would be the _sensible_ thing yes, but we're talking about the USA here.

                                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:07:41 UTC from
                                    1. @maiyannah Haha, good point.

                                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 21:06:33 UTC from web
                  2. @moonman @maiyannah From what I've read of military communities (comics and social media comments for stuff aimed specifically at servicemen) past boot camp most will stop seeing servicemen of the opposite sex as date material knowing they're FrankerZ tier for that as they're just as bad as them in relationships and just make everything harder, so they'll behave mostly as if they were the same gender.

                    Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:51:54 UTC from web
                    1. @nerthos @moonman Congratulations, you and your date both got put into tours of duty in seperate theaters of war.  Good luck trying to survive the next four years both physically and relationship wise!

                      Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:55:31 UTC from
          3. @moonman @maiyannah @shpuld world police

            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:42:18 UTC from
        2. @maiyannah @moonman personally I think the best solution is to put women and men in different jobs, it's not only the different standards that cause issues, men tend to get distracted by women nearby and tend to act overly protective around them and it's no secret, and when you're actually training people to go FIGHT A WAR, you really don't want to add any extra risks like that

          Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:29:19 UTC from
          1. @shpuld @moonman CAF has been fighting in mixed units for almost half a decade just fine.

            Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:30:43 UTC from
            1. @maiyannah @moonman yes, mixed units can work just fine, I know I've been in them, but I've seen studies that show that all male units still perform better, and if it's actual life/death situations we're talking about, I'll take whatever's the best and not just fine


              Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:35:23 UTC from
              1. @shpuld @moonman Well, let me know when your country breaks the long distance sniping record then :^)

                Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:36:28 UTC from
                1. @maiyannah @moonman we already had Simo "White Death" Häyhä, I don't think we need to show off in sniping any further ;---)

                  Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:38:50 UTC from
      2. @shpuld I don't care if women serve if they are able, I just don't think it's actually important for military readiness or that military should be a jobs program or that normal expectations of gender equality in other social spheres should apply.

        Friday, 03-Mar-17 20:27:00 UTC from