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>Someone talks games
>Free software fundamentalists get up in arms
GNUsocial, everyone.Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:27:15 UTC from web-
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@maiyannah "I like borderlands" "HOW CAN YOU GIVE MONEY TO PROPIETARY SOFTWARE"
Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:30:51 UTC from web-
@nerthos Yeah, don't get me wrong, I like open source games and the like, but when the norm is closed source, I can't fault people for confirming to the norms of society. I can fault the norms for being kiwity, but thats not on any individual or company.
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@maiyannah You can be a hermit and scorn The Man, or you can have the things you want. Most choose the latter.
Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:40:36 UTC from web-
@nerthos There's a few open source games that have had success, and lets not forget that iD releases the previous gen of their engine's source whenever they release the newer one (or at least used to), but people need to realize these instances are exceptional, not the norm,m and we cannot expect something that is exceptional.
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@maiyannah Pretty much. I'll welcome open source games, but if you want to ONLY play open source stuff, well, you better find another hobby or resign yourself to 90% 15-year-old-graphics stuff.
Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:43:59 UTC from web-
@nerthos @maiyannah To be fair, there actually are a couple nice looking F/OSS games. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/120236 https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/120239
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@maiyannah @nerthos Has any games been made with id Tech after they go open source?
I know most of the time, people just take the source code to make source ports of older games, but not really entirely new games.-
@gameragodzilla @nerthos It has a non-commercial clause so unlikely, the there is the Dark Mod.
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@maiyannah @nerthos So usually just source ports and standalone mods.
Well I guess that's the thing with non-commercial things. As much as people would love to just make games for the art, bills still need to be paid.
Wish someone would make a Splinter Cell mod with id Tech 4, though. They did one for Thief.-
@gameragodzilla @nerthos Everyone wants free stuff, few people want to pay for it. Im sure if you had the money you could contract even the likes of EA to make an open source game. That money is what it always comes down to.
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@maiyannah @nerthos Well GOG was able to convince EA to put some games on GOG DRM free, so it's probably within the realm of possibility.
But someone's gonna have to bankroll it, and most people who have that kind of money do so to get a return on their investment.
Unless they're Kickstarter backers.-
@gameragodzilla What we need are more polish companies. The polish are always weird but also pretty cool.
Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:55:22 UTC from web-
@nerthos CD Projekt Red, Flying Wild Hogs, I fully agree with you.
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Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:33:55 UTC from web
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Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:34:45 UTC from web
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@nerthos i love how innocently this conversation started.
"Hey man, how are you doing?"
"Oh, I got the flu, but otherwise I'm fine."
"I hate SJWs."
"Cool, I play video games."
"Your freedoms are being violated."Sunday, 28-Aug-16 20:38:48 UTC from web
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I just bought a used copy of GTA III from some game store because I knew it could be run on free software through wine or with Openrw.
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@mouse That's the thing, if you want to actively play games, you need to use windows. There are some games that can run on other platforms, but more often than not you'll be stuck with a small selection of mostly old games. There's rarely a big release that runs on both, last one I remember was Mount and Blade. So there's no justification to show hostility to someone for not wanting to drop windows.
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 19:01:44 UTC from web-
@nerthos @mouse
>but more often than not you'll be stuck with a small selection of mostly old games
steam on gnu/linux has more games than xbox one and ps4 combined-
@delores @dolus I didn't say "there are no games", I'm saying that is gaming is a hobby of yours, and you don't want to miss out on stuff, you need to run windows. Do you /need/ all those games? no. Do people who like gaming want those games? yes.
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 22:45:20 UTC from web-
@nerthos But why can't they be happy playing exclusively half-done applety open source games?
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 22:46:07 UTC from web-
@scribus Hey, that's as far as I bother. I've explained enough and past that point it's up to whether people want to be reasonable or fanatics.
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 22:49:41 UTC from web-
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 22:51:35 UTC from web
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@scribus If you want, you're more than welcome. Then again considering your levels of stress it might cause you to pop a vein.
Tuesday, 30-Aug-16 22:52:49 UTC from web
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@nerthos @mouse Between native commercial games, emulators, Wine and F/OSS games, I have more in my backlog than I'll ever manage to finish. You could make the argument that I'm missing out on AAA games, but most of those are cherry anyway, and the ones that aren't will run in Wine at some point. Til then, I'll just play something else. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/43276
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I like you. And the anime girl is a cutie.
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@mouse @nerthos The guys making these F/OSS replacement engines are doing us a great service. Projects like OpenMW, OpenRA, GemRB, OpenTomb, Xoreos and the like, not only allow us to play these classics in (relative) freedom, but also preserve them for future generations. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/117084 https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/118986 https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/118972 https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/118974 https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/118984
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse Actually, it's Planescape: Torment. Which is the same genre (classical CRPG) as the first two Fallout games. It's an amazing RPG even today. You can buy a Wine wrapped version from GOG and even run it natively in GemRB.
https://www.gog.com/game/planescape_torment
http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start-
@dolus @nerthos @mouse yeah i been trying to look for programs that is willing to work with fedora its hard
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse Why are you still using Fedora and not Korora? Korora is what newbies should use before trying to get by with Fedora proper.
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@dolus @nerthos @mouse yeah i use korora but i keep calling it fedora because thats what it came from
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse Here is a list of everything you'll need to get it running
linux-gate.so.1 (0xf7775000)
libstdc++.
libz.so.1
libXxf86vm.so.1
libGL.so.1
libopenal.so.1
libm.so.6
librt.so.1
libX11.so.6
libssl.so.1.0.0
libgcc_s.so.1
libc.so.6
libpthread.so.0
libdl.so.2
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x5659a000)
libcrypto.so.1.0.0
libXext.so.6-
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse You are going to run into a problem with libssl... Try running this in the terminal to get around that issue:
ln -s /usr/lib/libssl.so.10 /usr/lib/libssl.so.1.0.0
ln -s /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.10 /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.1.0.0-
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse type "dnf search" for the name, then "sudo dnf install" to install them. Remember, you want the 32-bit versions.
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse Well, "ia32-libs" was an old bundle of 32-bit dependencies for old versions of Ubuntu. It's no longer used in Ubuntu and it was never used in Fedora.
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@1iceloops123 @nerthos @mouse If all else fails, you can use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point the game to the steam runtime.
Make a blank file called 'run.sh' in the games directory. Then paste this to it with a text editor:
#!/bin/bash
chmod +x runner
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./path/to/steam_runtime:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH ./runner
Now you should be able to run the game with the 'run.sh' file you created (remember to mark it executable).-
@nerthos @1iceloops123 @mouse BTW, the bit that says "/path/to/steam_runtime" needs to be replaced with whatever the path to the 32-bit steam runtime is on your system. Here is where mine is located:
~/.steam/bin32/steam-runtime/i386/lib/i386-linux-gnu
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@1iceloops123 Here is a more clean way of doing it (you'll need Steam installed for this to work btw).
Step 1
Create a blank document in the games folder called 'run.sh'
Step 2
Add the following to that file with a text editor:
#!/bin/bash
chmod +x runner
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="~/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/steam-runtime/i386/lib/i386-linux-gnu/:~/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/steam-runtime/i386/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib32/"
./runner
Step 3
Replace the '~' in the path in the above script with the path to your home directory (example: /home/iceloops123)
Step 4
Make the 'run.sh' executable (most desktops let you do this with a right-click menu)
Step 5
Execute the 'run.sh' file to run the game. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/3219-
@dolus @1iceloops123 $HOME contains path to the home directory. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/119197
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@tijagi @1iceloops123 They amount to the same thing, but I wanted him to get an idea of how paths work. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/14431
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@dolus @1iceloops123 Then you can also tell him about the Path expansion and set -f! https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/41483
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@tijagi He seems to have given up... https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/108602
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@dolus What did you try to run? I interjected for a moment and a brief glance didn’t get me a grip. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/119727
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@dolus This is another reason linux gaming isn't popular. Installing a normal game on it is like installing one of the compatibility nightmare-tier windows games, with all the libraries, patches and stuff you need to install.
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:25:48 UTC from web-
@nerthos @dolus I remember when you had to install RealPlayer for FMV games back in the mid 90s
Those were the Dark Times-
@maiyannah If I had to go through the bother I had to go through to make no man's sky run with basically every other game, I wouldn't play games.
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:29:11 UTC from web-
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@maiyannah Three installations, of two different versions, normal patch, experimental patch, and a complete video driver replacement. Also waiting a week for the devs to elease support patches for my hardware.
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:31:02 UTC from web-
@nerthos Yeah it'd be getting returned at that point and if they don't like it they can eat the chargeback.
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@maiyannah I torrented it lol. Not going to pay $60 for a barely working port of a sandbox game, as fun as it might be.
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:36:37 UTC from web-
@nerthos Funs all that matters. If the bugs don't ruin the fun I don't care about them. But technical flaws like that put a huge crimp in things as I no doubt don't need to say.
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@maiyannah Yeah. A lesson in preordering. Only do it with companies you know for a fact won't screw up.
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:39:54 UTC from web-
@nerthos I only do it if the incentives offset the possible cost of a bad product. For instance, I didn't mind pre-ordering the original XCOM reboot because Civ V was offered as a bonus at no additional cost, a game I knew was good but didn't have already. So to my mind I was basically paying for Civ V and maybe getting a good game along with it.
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@purplehippo @nerthos @maiyannah What does this have to do with these new (I know they're not really all that new) methods of packaging applications?
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@dolus I have no idea but it's hilarious
Sunday, 04-Sep-16 21:43:09 UTC from web
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@purplehippo @nerthos @maiyannah Not sure what you're saying here... https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/16724
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and when was the last time you tried that.
heres how to install most non linux games on linux:
Get playonlinux
open playonlinux
pick the game from the menu
follow the point and click process
oh look you got games.
fallout NV, mass effect 2, and Dragon Age Origins all worked OOB with this "process" -
@nerthos Most developers pack libs with games nowadays. It's also worth noting that you can have the same issues with .dll files in Windows. Besides, AppImages. Flatpak and Snap pretty much mitigate this issue to the point an ordinary user won't have to manually deal with dependencies from 3rd party packages anymore. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/119491
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@dolus It's very rare that a windows installer doesn't include all required software and dlls
Saturday, 03-Sep-16 20:55:19 UTC from web-
@nerthos I've had cases where I needed to install .NET framework beforehand. Usually the needed does are installed if needed though.
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@nerthos The same is true of Linux these days. Steam has it's runtime (which is just a huge collection of libraries from Ubuntu 12.14) and most DRM-free games usually ship their own libraries. There are security downsides to having to do this. Which is why Snap and Flatpak will still be an improvement.
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@nerthos Still happens though. Anyway, I foresee most DRM-free games being released with AppImage or Flatpak/Snap just as soon as the dust settles between the later two.
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@nerthos You can have also run into a similar issue on Windows with .dll files. Besides, AppImages, along with Flatpak and Snap will pretty much mitigate this issue to the point an ordinary user won't have to manually deal with dependencies from 3rd party packages anymore. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/119491
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@dolus @1iceloops123 @mouse @nerthos planescape torment is an awesome game, i recommend everyone to play it
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@nerthos @why@gnutan.xyz @dolus @maiyannah I think the main problem the most libre games suffer from is that the creation of a game is something different than make any other kind of app. For a game that is at least on indie niveau you'll need a team with a composer, a artist, a programmer and maybe someone who cares for the story. The most libre games are made by some sparetime programmers and so they stay on a amateur nivoau. What isn't bad but just not enough to please a real gamers needs.
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@themightyglider @nerthos @maiyannah At this point all you are really missing out on are the AAA games (note: I never said anything about just playing F/OSS games). And I stand by what I said about most of those being boring eye candy.
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@dolus I never said anything about just playing libre games as well. I just was telling you about the problems these games have. To be honest I can understand very well why the most games aren't free/libre. You have to use some mony to create a profesional game. The classic mechanisms to earn money with libre software (like sell support) won't work. So you only can sell your software itselfe in order to make profit...
I think a good compromise would be free code with unfree assets, so you could make money and give your users at least a minimum of freedom and security.-
@themightyglider There is nothing stopping anyone from selling a libre game (there are more examples of commercial libre games than you'd think) for money . Practically speaking, there is little additional 'risk' from putting your games code under a free license; especially if you we're going to have a DRM-free release anyway. You could also be paid to continue to develop new features and fixing bugs. Hell, even larger companies could still make a profit just off of merchandice if the game is popular enough. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/118271
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@themightyglider @dolus @maiyannah @nerthos oh right i forgot tales of maj'eyal didnt have enough to satisfy a real gamer's needs
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@why @nerthos @maiyannah @themightyglider TOME is one of the better examples of a successful commercial F/OSS game. https://gs.smuglo.li/attachment/119378
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@why@gnutan.xyz @dolus @maiyannah @nerthos There are more examples for comercial foss games. For example wyrsun or retux but I don't expact that this will become state of the art some day. I don't think any big publisher would risk so much as long 99,9% of people dosnt care if it is free.
But if the idea of free culture would become a bit more popular among artists and musicans we maybe have a chance to get more libre indie games.-
@themightyglider @nerthos @maiyannah Can you tell me what the added "risk" for a single-player DRM-free game would be, if the code we're under a free license? I mean, I have yet to find anyone who can come up with anything.
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@why@gnutan.xyz @nerthos @maiyannah @dolus I mean the risk of earn less money because someone else compile and share it for free. Thats because I think free code and unfree assets would be a more realisttic model for a big publisher. Because it would be almost impossible to make a complete asset replacement as private person.
That dosn't mean that I wouldn't like to see that I am wrong.-
@themightyglider @nerthos @dolus I'm not really interested in having this discussion, untag pls
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@themightyglider @nerthos @maiyannah If the game is already DRM-free, it can be put up to be torrented (like every single GOG game is).
Besides that, people who would go through the trouble of compiling all their games are a tiny minority (and lets face it, the 'PC Master Race' isn't as savvy as it likes to pretend). I do agree that non-free assets with free code is acceptable though.
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