Conversation
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I think there's still a chance I could never die.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:09:47 UTC from web-
@pony Pretty unlikely, you know, the Sun won't shine forever.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:11:09 UTC from web-
@hakupony we'll science our way to everlasting life by then by any means.
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@abigpony We would if civilization kept on but I don't think that it will last for more as another 300 years if we don't start being much more reasonable with our ressources - and I doubt that we will.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:15:22 UTC from web-
@hakupony We only need to reduce our numbers.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:16:06 UTC from web-
@nerthos Nah - people fail to stop procreating.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:18:08 UTC from web-
@hakupony When they are not forced to do so. Free vasectomies for all!
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:19:11 UTC from web-
@nerthos Such attempts of population contrul usually fail. I don't know the exact data of the US but in Germany, population is dropping - it would be nice if more societies would work in a way that less people decited for children.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:27:47 UTC from web-
@hakupony It's because Germany has reached a point of mature society. Few countries had, though.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:28:48 UTC from web-
@nerthos Nah - we are pretty much as idiotic as any other country. We even complain that there are too few children and make policies to encourage people to get children. I say we just take some here who would starve otherwise. They are just as human as we are.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:34:36 UTC from web-
@hakupony Yeah, but doing so would cause even more globalization. Cultures are already too polluted by other countries' influences.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:36:44 UTC from web-
@nerthos Our culture was never "pure" and it is ridiculous when it tries to be. If I have to choose between this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JCh7A9dNxk&feature=related and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_tORtmKIjE I choose the mixed culture.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:40:33 UTC from web-
@hakupony It's not abut being "pure" but about not dissappearing. A world with a single culture is no fun.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:48:09 UTC from web-
@nerthos Why? It's not like culture is a monotoneous stable thing like a colour. It's a system of symbols and the attached meanings - and the Fandom we right are in shows how a new mini-culture grows inside a big culture - even with adjustments in language as everypony can see when we chat arount here.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:51:55 UTC from web-
@hakupony Exactly, but because of that variety of cultures things like traveling are fun. In a world without cultural differences leaving your home city would be pretty useless unless you have to go somewhere for bussiness.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:57:51 UTC from web-
@nerthos Travelling always is fun if you have the right perception. Going from one city to another can make a huge difference - and every city has many microcultures in it - and this is mostly because we accepted variety instead of a cultural identity.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:06:03 UTC from web
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@hakupony it's increasing threefold or something. We blame mexico because we all know it's their fault.
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@abigpony Macho Mexicans climb the walls of USA and impregnate unsatisfied women, thus increasing the population. The solution is simple: Making the local population more virile so the Mexicans are rejected by satisfied women.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:31:49 UTC from web-
@nerthos nah, They get so many because the government feels the need to pay illegals for having kids.
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@hakupony >implying we won't be using alternative fuels from other planets in 20 years
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@abigpony Fuel? Useful, but not absolutely necessary. I'm talking about fertile soil and genetic variety.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:23:30 UTC from web-
@hakupony we won't need fertile soil where we're going.
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@hakupony Genetic variety isn't neccesary if you can just assure healthy specimens by genetic engineering.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:26:36 UTC from web
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@hakupony A body that could stand millenia without damage could stand extreme cold too. And there's always the option of moving the planet to another system. Jupiter is a gigantic al of fuel after all.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:13:05 UTC from web-
@nerthos *ball
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:13:11 UTC from web
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@hakupony Oh that doesn't matter really. All I need is to survive the second coming and there's a pretty good chance I'll be translated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_%28Mormonism%29 Once that happens I'm pretty sure I'll be invulnerable.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:15:04 UTC from web-
@pony Mmmmmmmormanism? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PXaJxzuDE
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:16:11 UTC from web-
@swaggertron I thought I knew what that link was before clicking it. I'm not disappointed.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:17:11 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin You showed me this I think.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:17:36 UTC from web-
@swaggertron Stop! Joseph Smith.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:18:26 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin WHOA WHOAWHOA WHOA WHOAWHOA Have you seen the original video?
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:19:00 UTC from web-
@swaggertron I've not, no. I doubt it will be anywhere near as entertaining.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:20:21 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin It's pretty interesting.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:20:53 UTC from web-
@swaggertron Wasn't it like, made to dissect mormonism and was thus really offensive to mormons?
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:22:17 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin I could see it being offensive, yeah. Makes the religion look silly.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:22:55 UTC from web-
@swaggertron We believe some pretty dang awesome stuff! To some, awesome = silly I suppose.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:24:05 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:24:53 UTC from web
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@swaggertron Who is the original video by?
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:23:09 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:23:44 UTC from web
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@swaggertron ah OK. I could tell from just about the first sylable that the narrator wasn't Mormon. Half-way through his first sentence I was sure.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:25:52 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:26:28 UTC from web
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@swaggertron At least three wives at least three wives produced at least a billion Israelites.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:27:25 UTC from web-
@thelastgherkin The indians.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:27:59 UTC from web
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@swaggertron I worry that far too many know little about our faith except through secondary sources. I'm very particular about wording and I try to never include my own interpretation of the doctine when I explain it to others. Most second-hand sources, and even many latter-day saints themselves, create confusion about what we believe when doing so.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:31:07 UTC from web
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@swaggertron Oh sweet Luna. xD
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:19:09 UTC from web
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@pony Well... that doesn't seem too plausible to me. There is just one interpretation of theodicy that sounds convincing to me and that interpretation would require the current state to carry on forever...
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:31:33 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:37:34 UTC from web
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@pony Yes. If God is allmighty, the universe is as it is because He says so - and because He is absolutely wise and benevolent, this is the Best way it could be. All the misery and injustice even makes sense when you see the whole universe as a way to learn the destinction between good and evil - and to finally site with Him. So basically, we live in a bad world because we would pollute a perfect world when we lived in one.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:45:35 UTC from web-
@hakupony I don't know whether the universe in general will change, though I expect that as we progress toward becoming like God our envoronment will certainly change. The nature of mortal existence may not change since, I believe, it is a time of personal growth and change and a period during which we prepare to return and meet God.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 10:54:28 UTC from web-
@pony So you basically follow my line of logic (which is based on premises I don't believe to, but whatever). For me, it is obvious that our actions affect our enviroment, but I was talking about the level you called "the nature of mortal existance". But my point is that it would be cruel to let people who would be ready in this world and it would be cruel to just give everypony up who wasn't ready at a certain time. Why not let people constantly reincarnate in a vicious circle and take those who found enlightment out? It's no christian concept but it would be the best if A: God is God, B: There is some kind of paradise
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:02:24 UTC from web-
@hakupony Right. I do follow your line of logic though our premises differ. I've also wondered why reincarnation wasn't implemented by God according to my beliefs. I think that God must be efficient enough to not require that. Even those that die in infancy, we believe, are not required to endure the tests that we are, but they did need to come to mortality as part of their journey, however breifly, and they're sent straight to paradise afterward. Those who didn't progress in ways they ought to have progressed before they died would not benefit any more from mortality according to God's design. Instead they exist in a state that's called by my religion "spirit prison" where they may choose to progress and reach paradise before being resurrected, as all will be some day. The difference between the progress made in mortality and after mortality is hard to pin down doctinally. I only know that our intentions in life greatly weigh in on our capacity to change afterward.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:20:34 UTC from web-
@pony If we'd go with my premises, the discussion would be pretty soon over. Still, it seems an odd freedom. If I don't follow His ways, I'm in spirit prison where I can "choose" to do as He wants or go to hell, I guess. If that were true, the freedom of will would be the same freedom like the freedom in Iran - you can do what you want, you may get tortured for it, but you can do it.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:26:46 UTC from web-
@hakupony Sort of, yes. I believe our agency is truly free, but the concequences of our choices are fixed. It differs from torture inflicted by others in that it's much more a spiritual internal punishment htat we bring on ourselves.. like if we play wrecklessly with fire we'll get burned. In this case, though, it's more like, we'll have knowingly and in full awareness of the consequences chosen not to obey God's will, and thus condemned ourselves to a lesser existence. (I believe we can neither be saved nor condemned in ignorance.) That lesser existence is called Hell by some, but there's a different view of it in my religion. We believe "spirit prison" is the closest thing to hell, and that afterward, depending on our progress, we inherit one of multiple possible new and immortal states. The least of these states was described by Joseph Smith as being so wonderful that men would kill themselves to get there. The greatest of these states is to be exalted like God.
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:40:37 UTC from web-
@pony Oh, a religion that does not want to send me to eternal suffering :D
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:49:33 UTC from web-
@hakupony The pain of guilt is something that's worth more than every ounce of our effort to avoid. That's no joke in my faith, but God is Love still, and that's no joke either. :D
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:53:41 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 18-Jul-12 11:54:24 UTC from web
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