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What's this nonsense I'm hearing about a word filter? I thought y'all were smart enough to know those never work right and always cause far more trouble than they solve.
Tuesday, 04-Sep-12 23:47:53 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel *nods*
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@toksyuryel I was wondering when you'd show up to give your two cents. :p
Tuesday, 04-Sep-12 23:54:20 UTC from web-
@minti I've been on a lot of sites that had word filters, and seen plenty more. The biggest problem is false positives, followed up by members who find their way around the filter by spelling things "creatively". The words are already against the rules, so the purpose of a word filter is to keep members who don't want to see those words from potentially seeing them whenever somebody breaks that rule. The problem with that idea is that the people that want to make you see those words are going to find a way to do it anyway. Which means the word filter effectively does nothing but inconvenience legitimate users. One could compare it to DRM, as the problems of false positives and not actually working are exactly the same.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:05:58 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel this. So much this.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:07:03 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel Exactly my views on it. We have enough of a moderation staff to catch most if not all language abuse. We just need a clearer definition of what exactly is "bad" and "good" language.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:08:03 UTC from web-
@minti @toksyuryel cc @widget (Check context.)
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:08:47 UTC from web -
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:03:38 UTC from web
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Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:04:02 UTC from web
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Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:09:39 UTC from web
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@lyrica I'll do it tonight, probably. x.x Can't use SFTP on *nix as I did on Windows so I still have to figure out some stuffs. xD
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:04:20 UTC from web
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@toksyuryel That didn't stop the implementation of a wordfilter.
Tuesday, 04-Sep-12 23:54:34 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel that's what I was saying!
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:02:52 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel Just an FYI, it also catches and censors updates pushed from remote servers.
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@teradyne Ok, now see that's just plain *invasive*. Even if the parallels to DRM didn't exist and word filters worked flawlessly I'd still be against it doing THAT. Filter a redash of one yes, but there should be no filtering between a remote server and my personal timeline.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:24:54 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Like I told Cerulean, it's also potentially illegal if they break the license of a remote instance. Mine uses CC-BY, but there may be some with more restrictive licenses.
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@teradyne I don't think they care about that, unfortunately.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:38:13 UTC from web -
@teradyne That's kind of a shady topic as far as I'm concerned. It's been proven that the rendered HTML of a notice can be altered, and the notice will still be pushed (and subsequently used) on any remote instances that accept it. If the notice were under a restrictive license of sorts, there would be no way of stopping people just pushing XSS-laced notices over to our (or any really) instance and there would be close to nothing we could do to stop it because we can't exactly implement a filter if the notice is licensed in a way where we can't edit it. ... Man, I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore. #offtopic
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:42:31 UTC from web-
@minti thus the pic fallows you lol. http://ur1.ca/a46b5
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:45:53 UTC from web -
@minti While it's shady, it's also a very real possibility. As for XSS-laced notices, that goes farther than editing the text of an update. That would be one hell of a gray zone, though, as you're looking at cybercrime laws vs licensing laws, and in the US, cybercrime laws usually take priority in the courts.
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@teradyne True. As for the topic on hand, it should be fairly easy to make remote notices not be edited by the filter. If Widget isn't able to do it, I'll do the edit myself.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:55:31 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:57:14 UTC from web
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@toksyuryel Boy, and we were almost off the subject too.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 00:59:18 UTC from web-
@redenchilada As long as it still exists on this site, we'll never be off the subject.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:00:09 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Ok, see, here's the thing. We've _been_ deleting notices that had the language, and people have been complaining to us about it. We add a wordfilter so that doesn't have to happen, and now we're "invading users' rights". There's seriously no way to please you people, is there?
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:01:57 UTC from web-
@redenchilada Nope :)
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:04:56 UTC from web -
@redenchilada The user base is not a collective. I have never complained about notices being deleted for language; I've even complained about them *not* being deleted for it in the past.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:05:05 UTC from web -
@redenchilada Have we been deleting them? Yes. Have we been deleting them consistently, no. People won't really complain if they *expect* it to be deleted. xD
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:05:12 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:06:25 UTC from web
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@techdisk42 Because deleting notices is fun sometimes !
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:07:12 UTC from web
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@minti People will always complain. It's the responsibility of the people managing the site to discern which complaints have value and which do not and ignore the latter. If they aren't able to do that, then they lack the necessary qualifications for their role and should work on finding a replacement who does understand their responsibility as soon as possible. Expecting this to be easy is the first mistake of many new admins.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:09:22 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel And we've made our decision on which complaint held more merit.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:10:40 UTC from web-
@redenchilada And now you get to find out if you made the correct choice ☺
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:12:13 UTC from web
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@redenchilada The thing with the deletions is, as Minti said, the inconsistency. We've been switching from zero deletions to one hundred percent of somewhat adult-worded posts, overnight. People wouldn't complain nearly as much with a moderate, but properly enforced content policy.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:07:20 UTC from web-
@nerthos You say that, but the entire reason we've _ever_ let them slide is because the userbase complained about posts being removed.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:08:59 UTC from web-
@redenchilada POSTS ARE REMOVED!?!?! Gasp!
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:09:30 UTC from web -
@redenchilada So stop listening to those complaints? Not all complaints have merit. Learn which do and which don't, or find a replacement who will.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:11:05 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Fine. The wordfilter is staying.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:12:00 UTC from web-
@redenchilada I don't like the idea of a word filter... Can't get away with stuff when mods arnt looking... err I ment to say rights and all that... ya that
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:13:48 UTC from web-
@nlghtmaremoon wow it's pretty slow refreshing the page though so sorry if i don't reply right away
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:15:40 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:43:53 UTC from web
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@nlghtmaremoon it's fine now, it stopped bleeding but i'm gonna have to use crutches for a bit so i don't put weight on it and open it up again. Gonna make getting to class hell but nothing i can do about it
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:46:44 UTC from web
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@redenchilada The (not stupid) complaints started to pop up when widget started deleting everything without telling why, and that was solved. But there were times of the day with no moderation, and times with complete moderation. It's about a gradual change. Nobody would really complain about the wordfilter if not because we crashed against it just after a zig-zag road.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:13:11 UTC from web-
@nerthos Having the wordfilter solves the issue of the zig-zag. I'm not saying there won't be issues with it early on. I'm not saying it's perfect. But it's better than seeing you people complain whenever someone tries to _actually enforce_ the language rule.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:15:27 UTC from web-
@redenchilada I never understood why there was never a list of "banned words" in the rules page. That was always the issue. Some tought some words were OK, some tought those same words were wrong. Even within the staff there was no consensus.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:18:01 UTC from web-
@nerthos And thus the wordfilter eliminates the lack of consensus. It's one list of words that are enforced automatically.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:20:35 UTC from web-
@redenchilada But we have no accesible list of the banned words. In my case, that would be enough to not complain, because I could avoid using those words, and not have my posts aesthetically ruined.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:23:15 UTC from web
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@widget I liked that to him earlier but you deleted it. :( (I think?)
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:26:14 UTC from web -
@widget Thanks.
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:26:47 UTC from web -
@widget No clue who did it then, but someone deleted the notice I sent to @nerthos with the plugin source. :/
Wednesday, 05-Sep-12 01:27:26 UTC from web
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