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If the industry ever goes all digital and this bullcherries becomes the standard I will just focus on collecting older games, I refuse to buy into it. !vgp
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 04:02:19 UTC from web-
@leonkfox Digital games aren't bad. Bad DRM is what makes them bad.
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@redenchilada You don't have full ownership, you have to take the entire system with you to take games around with you, there is no competition and therefore most games are overpriced, especially since there are no manufacturing costs or middle men...I'm sorry but to me digital distribution can go **** itself. I will quit gaming (as far as buying new systems goes) if it ever goes digital only.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 04:12:33 UTC from web-
@leonkfox Legally speaking, you don't have full ownership of retail games either. Having to 'take the entire system' only applies to current-gen consoles; It is a bad model, yes, but the current-gen systems weren't really designed with digital distribution in mind, and nothing short of designing new consoles will change that. Meanwhile, with PCs, where digital distribution is actually supported, all you need is internet access. Which, for a lot of people, is far less hassle than having to dick around with physical media. Digital games are overpriced because retail stores won't let digital distributors undercut them. If EA tried to sell BFBC3 for $40 on Origin while the retail version was still $60, places like Gamestop would refuse to stock it, which would kill the game. To me, digital distribution is the best thing that ever happened to PC gaming. As for consoles, again, the CURRENT ones just weren't designed for it. Next ones probably won't be either. But the ones after that..
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 12:46:57 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint I certanily feel like I have a lot more ownership of the game with a physical copy than just a download. Plus I like to collect games, let other family members play them on another version of the same system, lend them to friends....digital distrubution takes all of that freedom and totally obliterates it. Only I really own that game ,with digital people have to have an account of their own and buy the games themselves ,and the risk of losing your account ,being hacked etc and therefore losing all of your games. Digital distribution to me is an absolute joke, people blindly pay full price for the games just for the convenience, not considering the lack of a middle man or manufactuering costs, even Steam has been guilty of this before.
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@leonkfox When I buy a game, I only have two concerns. Getting a good game, and supporting developers who make good games. 90% of the time when someone buys retail, they're buying used, which means the only thing they're supporting is the store they bought it from. None of that money goes to the people who actually made the game, as your youtube guy pointed out when he said he'd only stock used copies of RAGE, and laugh all the way to the bank while doing so. Personally, I've seen far, FAR too many good developers go bankrupt even though -used- copies of their games were selling really well. I will never buy a used copy of any game again, unless it's an old console game and there literally is no other choice. And even if the game is available new, I will still prefer digital, because the developers get more money that way. And if I think it's a really good game and want my friends to try it, then I have no problems buying copies for them, because it means more money for the developers.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:14:24 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint There's wanting to support developers, and then there's wanting them to have a monopoly, going all digital does the latter. Plus we'll see a lot of jobs lost and we already have a big enough problem with unemployment as it is. I'm sorry but to me, digital distrubution is a rip off that saves developers money and when sold at full price screws over the consumer, paying the amount of money that would cover the middle man, manufactuering costs etc for a non existant copy of the game. If the industry ever goes all digital I'll just focus on collecting older systems ,games etc and experieincing those, I refuse to buy into this.
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@puzzlemint as my career choice is a video game developer I wholly support your message. I also have to agree with your statement on the way of games. Personally I have pirated, but that is only to check the first level, level and a half of the game if its good I go spend my money and I have played maybe two games completely through on pirated, but I have purchased a hard copy anyway to support the company behind the game
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:22:09 UTC from web -
@puzzlemint @leonkfox I favour physical distribution of games because in 10 years time, when the DRM servers have gone into the long night, I might still want to return to them. I still play PS1, N64 titles, and Old PC games today. I, however, only buy new from stores anyway. My internet speed isn't sufficient for digital to be a viable option (Unless you want to wait a week between paying for your game and playing it, anyway).
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:23:42 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark I agree whole heartedly.
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@ceruleanspark But the physical copies of the games have DRM, too. In fact, in many cases, they use a stricter form of DRM which is more likely to go under. The issue is moot, however, since, when the DRM servers go down, the fans will find a way to keep the games alive. I also still play older PC games. Usually in DOSbox, or a virtual machine running Windows 98SE; often with a no-CD crack and several other fan-made patches required to keep the game working on modern machines. If the game is good, people will find ways to keep it playable.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:29:56 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint I'm not saying I won't buy digital. I don't have a blanket policy on the matter. I buy whatever is most attractive to me as a consumer at the time. If a physical copy has some godawful DRM on it, then I might well get a digital copy and wait a week for the download, but in general, "Being able to play a game as soon as I actually buy it" tends to trump even pricing concerns.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:34:53 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark Where I live, "being able to play a game as soon as I buy it" means digital. Last time I bought a physical copy of a game, it took three weeks to be delivered. Best part is, it was a Steamworks game, so I had to download it anyways.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:51:36 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint Go to an actual store, where delivery times aren't an issue.
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@leonkfox Buy me a teleporter, so having to drive two hours to get to an actual store isn't an issue.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:57:22 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint That isn't physical distributions' fault. I can see a preference for digital with that being the case, but you seem to have a "It should all be digital" vibe going on ,based on some previous posts. I don't believe it should all be physical if some people have issues with physical, but by the same token the people who insist "It's DA FUTARRE!!!" don't consider the fact that digital is far from perfect.
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@leonkfox Your statement of "I don't believe it should all be physical if some people have issues with physical" doesn't gel at all with the incredibly forceful "digital distribution should die in a fire" vibe you've been projecting. Aside from some stores' habit of aggressively pushing used sales (even when they have new copies in stock), I have nothing against retail. It just doesn't offer me anything that I value that digital doesn't do better. Especially in terms of suggestion. Many of my favorite games would have been next to impossible to find in stores, and some of the best games I've played in recent years, like Bastion, have been digital-exclusive.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 14:30:12 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint It's worth pointing out, I think, that the "Aggressively pushing used over new" thing is MUCH less prevalent in Europe, where we (me and @leonkfox) both are.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 14:35:46 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark Thank you.
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@leonkfox You said "Digital distribution should die in a fire" at roughly the same time I said "it should all be digital". As in, stop putting words in my mouth. As for pushing used games, @ceruleanspark seems to know it happens, though he says it's less common on your side of the pond.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 14:53:08 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint I didn't put words in your mouth...you went on a self righteous brigade of supporting developers and being all anti used games ,you may as well have said you were anti physical distribution...
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@leonkfox Yes, you did put words in your mouth. And I was only offering an alternative stance on a topic which you raised with an extremely narrow, one-sided view.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 14:59:03 UTC from web-
@puzzlemint @leonkfox Derp. "Yes, you did put words in MY mouth".
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 15:00:56 UTC from web -
@puzzlemint I said I didn't put words in YOUR mouth. And my view is narrow minded and one sided, huh? How so? It's a perfectly valid point, digital distrubution DOES save money, but the savings sure as hell aren't passed onto us, you can not deny that. Charging 40 pounds for a digital copy of a game is wrong, and it happens on Steam ,which is supposedly a flawless saint of digital distribution.
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@leonkfox It's worth pointing out that DD has /different/ costs. Bandwidth is non-free, and a digital distribution service (a good one, anyway) has to allow for you to get multiple (infinite) copies of the game for your (1) payment, over any period of time, whereas a brick-and-mortar store will only give you the one. If I format my PC and redownload all my steam stuff, I alone am going to hit steam for a good 20+gb of transfer without paying them a penny on top of what I already paid.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 15:05:24 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark Well if I had to choose between paying for bandwidth costs or the right to properly own my game, and not buy into a monopoly where price competition is dead and if I get banned from Steam or (insert other service here) or get hacked I'll lose my entire collection. If that's the future then I don't want to be a part of it.
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@leonkfox I'm just illustrating that just because they don't make or ship disks doesn't mean that the cost to them is zero.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 15:15:15 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark I guess...
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@puzzlemint I have never seen a store push the sale of a used game to me over a new game once in my entire life. That sounds like an exageration to me, no offence.
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@leonkfox I visited a Gamestop in NY when I was visiting my girlfriend. It's like the inverse of Game in this country. Used stuff takes up a huge portion of the floor space in there.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 14:50:44 UTC from web
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@puzzlemint And when did I say "Digital distribution should die in a fire" I personally hate it to the bone and have issues with it ,by issue is with the industry going all digital and forcing me into it.
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@puzzlemint @leonkfox !vgp Physical appeals to me in a way digital never will. Holding the box, having a manual, having a hard copy of something as it were... something to put on a shelf and display, and be able to hold onto for archival purposes. This is a very good thing. Digital, on the other hand, is glorious for being able to get something as soon as it comes out, pay the people who created it so that they can survive and keep on making awesome things, and usually allows for instant patches, add-ons, updates, and other fun stuff. Pros and cons, etc. I'm ok with a developer having full control over their own sales, as that cuts out middlemen and allows them to reap the profits of their own work. I'm not okay with DRM that makes it so once they're tired of supporting it, it goes away and suddenly you can't play what you paid for. But I kinda wish all titles were available both digitally and physically...
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 18:26:30 UTC from web-
@rpb3000 I know what you mean about DRM. I have a PS3 copy of Mercenaries 2 that I can't play unless I turn off PSN because of the fact that they took the multiplayer servers down. The DRM freezes the game because it can't find a server that no longer exists.
Monday, 05-Sep-11 01:27:57 UTC from web-
Monday, 05-Sep-11 01:29:16 UTC from web
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@musicssound You'd think that but apparently the company who made it didn't care enough to do so. And this isn't even an old copy either! It was part of a bundled re-release along with Drake's Fortune and a Tomb Raider game. Basically, they intentionally sold the public a shoddy broken game they have no intention of fixing. !vgp
Monday, 05-Sep-11 01:32:24 UTC from web-
Monday, 05-Sep-11 01:33:18 UTC from web
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@musicssound @midnightmoon stop telling me to eat your lies!!!!!
Monday, 05-Sep-11 01:34:55 UTC from web
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@puzzlemint Heh, so we're opposites in that regard then. I live near a bunch of towns and I own my own car, so going and purchasing stuff is a nonissue for me. On the other hand, watching steam redownload the Source engine for the Nth time at 10kbps is.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:56:34 UTC from web
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@leonkfox I feel the same, and extend it to music (though not as heavily). iTunes doesn't have a $1/album bargain bin, man. I've found some good stuff like that.
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@scribus Not sure which I prefer when it comes to music, but for games I am 100 percent against digital distribution, I hate it to the bone and refuse to buy into it.
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@scribus I have found some excellent games in bargain bins before, which isn't possible with most digital distribution because games always stay the same price, as does DLC. Xbox Live, I am looking at you.
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Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:41:01 UTC from web
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@ceruleanspark I guess...there's still the whole thing of not actually owning (as in being able to feel and see) the game for me though =/
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@leonkfox Unless there's something special about it (fancy box, LE materials, stuff like that), that doesn't really bother me.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:47:31 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark There is, I'm quite the collector, I like to be able to see the game I've paid money for, rather than just have a code/key for a non existant copy.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:52:49 UTC from web
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@ceruleanspark That's true; doesn't really cross my mind because I don't have it.
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@scribus Indeed, because most people are gullible enough to think "Convenience = Everything" and don't consider the legalised monopoly they're buying into. Say goodbye to store competitors with pricing, freedom of where to buy games from, and say hello to buying from one source and paying for costs they don't have ,like the middle man and manufactuering costs.
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@leonkfox !vgp My feelings on the entire problem are so ridiculously mixed that it's not even funny. Bad DRM is bad, poor copyright laws are poor, backwards payment concepts are backwards... I salute those who have proven that pay-what-you-want actually works, and miss the days of honorware.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 06:33:09 UTC from web-
@rpb3000 Physical Distribuiton is the only way to go, and the day it all goes digital is the day I stop buying and focus entirley on collecting and experiencing older games. I won't be able to wait until the new games get cheaper, because digital games and DLC often don't drop in price over time, another HUGE problem with digital distrubiton. Plus I hate the idea of one company having a monopoly since only they sell the game.
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@rotation Oh, right. By "Stores" I mean "Any entity which will exchange money for videogames". Generally, if I'm preordering something, I'll get it online. If it's spur-of-the-moment, I drive to town.
Sunday, 04-Sep-11 13:29:00 UTC from web
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