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The core tenant of capitalism remains true- if you reward a particular action, people will tend to repeat that action. The critical failure of free market capitalism is that it doesn't discriminate between positive and negative actions. Sony and Nintendo make more money selling people games they already own than they do making their systems compatible with them, for example. This is clearly not ideal- we are rewarding an action that results in an inferior product to what could have otherwise been created. So, what we need is a different reward structure, one that still rewards people for creating successful products but that does not reward them for creating new iterations of old products that result in the loss of key functionality. And thus we arrive at regulations.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:24:07 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Sony and Nintendo make that money because the market is willing to pay it though.
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@ceruleanspark Which is why free market capitalism is such a failure. When people want something and they have no alternative but piracy to get it, most of them will just accept the less-than-ideal solution of bending over and taking it up the plot. We can see that this doesn't accomplish the goal of an economic system, which is to encourage growth through innovation- this system encourages growth through stagnation. It relies on trusting corporations to behave themselves, and it's well-established by now that when you can do anything you want and not get in trouble for it most people will in fact do whatever they want. 4chan is practically a case study in this phenomenon.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:31:41 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I don't see how your specific example relates to the point you're trying to make though. Selling people something they were either stealing, or flat out not experiencing before IS functionally innovation. Also: paying for stuff that's for sale isn't taking it in the mangoes, it's commerce.
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@ceruleanspark Iterating on an existing product by removing something from it and then selling that something back to the customer is what I am talking about in this example. That is broken and should not be encouraged.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:36:26 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel And the market has chosen: PS3 sales were slow compared to units with functional backwards compatibility and Vita sales range between slow to nonexistant.
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@toksyuryel As much as I'd like to get more into th topic, I'm starving. I will respond to that later, okay?
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:28:09 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel Elaborate on "games they already own". Do you mean stuff like virtual console and rereleases of old games? Old games rock!
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:29:49 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 The 3DS doesn't support GBA games, and the PS3 doesn't support PS2 games. Both of these systems make you buy new versions of those games if you want to play them on that system. Most people still own many of these games. When developing the systems they could have supported them, but the chose not to because doing so would cost money. In this way, not only do they NOT spend the money it would have cost to support these games, but they get to make MORE money by selling the games again to people that already own them. The system discourages the superior product and encourages the inferior product. This is broken.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:34:49 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Well, the ps3 had ps2 support originally, but it made the ps3 cost obscene amounts of money to the consumer, so they removed ps2 support. and if your a hoarder like me, you keep the old systems anyway. (I still dig out my gba when I wanna play super Mario world! It might be a port of the SNES game, but I never had that SNES game)
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:39:35 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 I wonder if my PS1 still works :/
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@techdisk42 That's precisely why the system is broken- it discouraged the superior product.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:41:15 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I agree with ya. The only way to win is to either be apple or walmart. Apple because they actually innovate, walmart because of their walmartiness
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:44:45 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 Oh god you didn't just tell Toksy that Apple innovates did you? I'll get the mop.
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@ceruleanspark OHSHI... *disappears in puff of smoke*
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:46:13 UTC from web -
@ceruleanspark I actually remember that.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:20:57 UTC from web
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@techdisk42 Apple takes existing products, removes half the features from them, makes them look pretty, places them inside a barbed-wire electric fence, and then sells them at 2-5x their original price. #innovative
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:48:12 UTC from web
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@techdisk42 And hoarding old systems is all well and good, but those systems don't last forever. They break down eventually, and getting replacements it quite difficult and often expensive once they've been out of production for a while.
Tuesday, 15-May-12 11:43:07 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I will reply bow even though its been two months. I disagree. Old systems are frikkin tanks. They will not break if you arent trying to break em. If someone has had these systems for this long already, they are the people who will want to take care of em. Those systems last forever. #laughablylatereply
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:27:47 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 Counterpoints: the Playstation 2. The DS Lite.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:28:33 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel I dont consider those old at all. The ds lite was pathetic in terms of physical strength, and the PS2 is actually fairly recent. Im talking the original Playstation, SNES, NES, GBA, dreamcast, and so on.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:31:43 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 The PS2 and DS Lite were at the basis of my argument, as those are systems I have, which broke, and which were difficult to repair/replace and for which games are being remade and resold for newer systems that lack backwards compatibility to them.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:33:22 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel Oh. Well the 3ds supports ds games, and if you had enough money in the past the ps3 supported ps2 games. But even then. If you are serious about keeping a system in top shape, it will stay in top shape. Handhelds a bit less than consoles, for obvious reasons. And the ds lite... Ugh. Hinge cracks galore.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:37:12 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 I NEVER HAD THAT PROBLEM WHY DID SO MANY PEOPLE STRUGGLE WITH THE HINGES GAAAH sorry
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:38:40 UTC from web -
@techdisk42 I want a system that supports DS *and* GBA games. The DS Lite is that system.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:40:29 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel something something can't play multiplayer on GBA games on a DS mutter mutter
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:41:40 UTC from web -
@toksyuryel The original ds too. But if you had a gba, every single handheld nintendo game up to the gba is playable.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:43:22 UTC from web
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@techdisk42 My little brother has a hinge crack on his Lite, but... that kid does NOT know how to keep things from breaking. His laptop is covered all around with duct tape. :/
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:40:57 UTC from web-
@redenchilada maybe I should buy him a sword or a gun.lol
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:41:50 UTC from web -
@redenchilada sounds like my computer
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@marsh I have never seen anyone treat electronics as badly as he does. Except maybe my older brother; kid's broken more controllers than I can count and there's a sizeable black hole in my dad's TV screen because of him (throwing controllers, obviously).
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:43:39 UTC from web-
@redenchilada your dad sounds like my dad and the reason why my computer is broke is because of children touching it. Example http://ur1.ca/9tjha
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@marsh No, my older brother broke the TV screen. When I said I treat my Lite like a football, I'm not being literal. When I say my older brother treats his electronics like footballs, I _am_ being literal.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:46:47 UTC from web-
@redenchilada And since I never actually said it, my older brother treats his electronics like footballs.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:48:30 UTC from web -
@redenchilada lol. My little brother and dad both rage at call of duty and both their controllers are broken and my brother has gone thru 2 TVs
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@marsh I wanna segway this discussion into talking about my dad's family's dog, so that I can complain about it. They bring him up _every time they visit_ without asking, and that thing does nothing but chew through cords. I found a bunch of little gnawed-into bits on my 3DS's charger because of that stupid mutt. >:S Not to mention it's torn through one of our nunchucks, our classic controller, one of my Dreamcast controllers (SO MUCH RAGE), and a lamp cord, and that's just at our place. The dumb thing's even gone through multiple TVs down where it lives.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:52:00 UTC from web-
@redenchilada TL;DR I hate animals.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:52:25 UTC from web -
@redenchilada my (my brothers dog) pooped all over my wii (which my brother took), my game cube, ate my Pokemon emerald (literally) and my spyro game, chewed through a bunch of my game cube controllers, left used tapons (very disgusting) on my games. Also unrelated pooped in my heelies when I was in elementary school
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@marsh ...Your dog left used tampons all over your games? [b]Eeeewwwww.[/b]
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:57:08 UTC from web-
@redenchilada yup and those games were never touched again (they were ps1 games)
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@redenchilada oh gha! I had a dog we had to diaper until she was spayed actually.. that was one of the grosser things I've had to deal with. usually it's not something you havta worry about
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:59:37 UTC from web
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@toksyuryel My DS Lite hasn't had a single hardware issue and I throw it around like a football.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:33:26 UTC from web-
@redenchilada spray it with hairspray then burn it
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:35:15 UTC from web -
@redenchilada The lower screen on mine broke =/ I managed to get a new one.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:36:18 UTC from web-
@toksyuryel ...How? Even though I've known a few with broken hinges (which I have no clue how that even happens), I've _never_ seen a broken touch screen.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:38:01 UTC from web
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@redenchilada I find similar incredible levels of durability in my nintendo products. So it was always horrifying to see so many broken DS's come in to my Gamestop when I used to work there. And I was always a manager on duty, so I couldn't pass the buck to anyone above me and let them deal with it. I was always thinking to myself, "how on Earth did that child manage to break it?"
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:36:37 UTC from web-
@crusader8 "Hey, what happens if I drop this thing off of a third-story balcony onto solid concrete?"
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:38:42 UTC from web-
@redenchilada Nintendo fans suffer in the name of children's science
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:39:32 UTC from web
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@crusader8 See, up to the game boy advance, nintendo systems were rock solid. Nothing would get anywhere near breaking them. With the gba sp and the whole DS line, their systems became alot less tank like. We call this the nintendium factor. The plastic in old nintendo systems was so strong it deserves a name. #historicalfact
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:41:30 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 Fact: my GBA no longer turns on.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:42:06 UTC from web-
@redenchilada Fact: i broke one of mine with a beyblade.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:46:29 UTC from web
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@techdisk42 I still won't understand how my DS Lite exhibited nintendium-like properties yet I saw so many that kids utterly destroyed. Oh well.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:43:40 UTC from web-
@crusader8 Mine did too. Then i took it apart and electronically broke it. Because im an idiot like that.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:45:15 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 gahd I loathed my customers who brought in crap they tampered with. They would get indignant with me like *I* was the villain whenever I would refuse their trade/return/exchange/cry-for-pity. It's like, why do kids try to put linux on their 360? To make it something that's worse than the computer they already own?
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:57:04 UTC from web-
@crusader8 I would do that, but only once the warranty is dead and im ok with it breaking. I would never try to return it after screwing with it.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 06:00:17 UTC from web
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@redenchilada But who plays ds anymore anyway? Oh. Right. Me.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:38:14 UTC from web-
@techdisk42 I keep my Lite around for torturing myself with the handheld GH games every now and then.
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:39:40 UTC from web -
@techdisk42 I loved it but sold it
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:39:48 UTC from web -
@techdisk42 @redenchilada My DS favorites are Tetris DS, the layton games, and Pokemon
Monday, 23-Jul-12 05:41:14 UTC from web
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