Conversation
Notices
-
Generally when I'm playing games elements my priorities go in this order:
1)Gameplay
2)Story
3)Visuals
This isn't to say the ones lower don't add to a game, but a game with strong gameplay and weak visuals can stand on its own merits a lot more than the reverse of that.-
@northernnarwhal Visuals are so low on the list for me that in 90 percent of the games I play, it's not even a factor.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 17:55:21 UTC from web-
@mrmattimation I mean, having good visuals does help. And I don't just mean graphics, but design too. It certainly does enhance the experience to have an art style that agrees with it, not to mention creative and varied level/character/enemy design. It's just that all of that is the proverbial icing on the cake, and no one wants to eat only icing.
-
-
@northernnarwhal How about Elite : Dangerous and others of it's kind ? Star Citizen spings to mind. Although technically they would fall under the same category as Minecraft in the "go out there and create your own adventure !" ( in which the story can be either very good, or very bad, depending on what you make of it ) but since I'd really much prefer to see what the heck that weird thing about 100 metres ahead of me while playing Euro Truck Simulator for a change, and my rig is fully loaded and weighing over 20 Tons, I would really prefer for it to be identifyable before I squish right over a Fiat Panda with just 1 occupant who was born in 1944. Point is, to each their own. Heck there are a lot of people who play Destiny, and Story-wise that game is about as rich as an orphan is nutricious ( as in : it takes a rather strange person to claim so ) especially seen as that the game points to an out of game reference book for every scrap of lore
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:02:22 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker That's why I put GAMEPLAY first, ahead of story :p
-
@northernnarwhal In the case of Destiny, yes you would be right. But if the game would look worse than the story... I do not think so many people would still play it
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:06:15 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker I mean, it's possible for a game to stand on its story, it just need a really, really damn hod story. It's incredibly easier for a game to stand on its core gameplay. Because in all honesty that's what makes a game something that's a game and not something like a film.
-
@northernnarwhal *good
-
@northernnarwhal That's one of my problems with Telltale Games. The stories are fantastic, but they hand hold you the entire way through and you aren't even actually playing the game.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:11:26 UTC from web-
@mrmattimation Yeah, though one thing I like about them is I still feel at least somewhat involved because my actions all have consequences, and that gives a lot of weight to them. Not to mention it's one of the few games that has a moral system that isn't an obvious "good/evil" dichotomy.
-
-
@northernnarwhal Agreed. There are games that stand on their story, games that stand on their gameplay, and games that stand on their visuals. ... Speaking about "that's a game and not somehting like a film", I should probably do the same as http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/628 soonish.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:13:11 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker I can't think of a game that stands on its visuals without at least some decent story or gameplay to be honest.
-
@northernnarwhal Destiny primarily stands on its gameplay, but still needs both graphic fidelity and story to survive. Xenoblade on the Wii would also starve an infancy death if it were not for gameplay and graphic fidelity. As such I am not sure what the magic mixture actually is. But I am sure that if you were to look at the System Requirements for The Witcher 3 and the explanation of "why so high system requirements" you perhaps could see it. Also keeping in mind Simulator games and Elite : Dangerous and Star Citizen. Also I think that Tribes:Ascend could deserve a honourable mention. The gameplay of which would not even be possible to such an extent if not for graphic fidelity of its kind
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:21:30 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker You do realize you basically just said "This game stands on its gameplay, but it has good graphics too!!!" which isn't what I wad saying earlier. Barrimg whether or not I enjoy all of those games, do you think you'd enjoy them if their core gameplay was stripped or diluted?
-
@northernnarwhal No I do not, Maybe because I am either oblivious to it, or that is not what I meant. I said that there is a magic mixture of graphic fidelity, story, and gameplay, both of which enable eachother. Yet one factor is always the strongest ( or appears the strongest ). We could also twist the whole debate around by asking the question "If graphic fidelity was not important, then why are there so many Minecraft/Skyrim mods that make it look photorealistic ?"
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:31:06 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Because while those mods all exist, all those graphical changes aren't taking away from or changing the core gameplay in any way. Changing something like that would be like putting strawberry sauce instead of chocolate sauce on a slice of pie, the slice of pie is not intrinsically changed, there's just an extrinsic change in the topping.
-
@northernnarwhal While we are on pies. Allow me to take away pieces of the pie untill there is nothing left but the bare essentials and then I'll try to sell it to you while claiming it for only to be second best next to a fully fledged wedding cake. While in reality it is nothing but the bottom part of a cheesecake with jam smeared all over it. That does not fly ! Just like how you would not be able to sell GTA5 on GTA 3's graphic fidelity. Now to put that into context, you need to have the proper graphical fidelity to actualy convey what you want to do in the game. If you had a racing game that only had 15 FPS you would not be able to play it very well. As for games with a stronger graphical component compared to gameplay or story, pretty much all Simulator games.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:44:09 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker The thing is, you need to take games in context of WHEN they came out. Obviously if a game with N64 graphics came out now we'd be quicker to criticize it, but when we play a game that came out in that era we take it with a grain of salt because of that.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:49:02 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal And that is the way graphic fidelity is important. Also why I would prefer to have the bar on a considerably high than a considererable low, since I would probably have more time to properly enjoy them. Also it is better to have something great than to have the community mod in so much crap you'll eventually feel that the community did more for the game than the original dev team did
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:52:32 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Not really, it just means the basal technology has advanced since then. The bottom line here is you can the most cutting edge graphics and engine and textures and the whole nine yards, but in the long run all of that is extraneous. None of that matters if the game itself is boring, derivative, streamlined, and repetitive.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:56:44 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal See also: Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:00:09 UTC from web-
@mrmattimation But can YOU argue with game sales ?
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:00:38 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Well gosh, that game sold so well. You've clearly proved Matt wrong there, bravo. http://rainbowdash.net/attachment/816805
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:05:21 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal It is not my statement, it is my deduction. If games like CoD did not sell well they would stop making it and I would cheer because I do not like those games. And I have not cheered yet !
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:07:35 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Part of why those games sell well is because the companies producing them are incredibly rich and can market the living hell out of their game, not to mention they're basically just releasing the same game over and over again on a proven model they know works. Matt isn't saying the game doesn't have appeal, he's saying it's garbage because there's no merit to it outside of its visuals.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:09:51 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal Oh, is it ? Then why is the game selling more on the XboX One than on the PS4 last time I checked ?
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:11:52 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker That's not relevant at all, not to mention correlation does not imply causation.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:15:45 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal There are always statistical anomalies between 2 values when you take them at random intervals. But if we look at the underdog of Gen7 and the underdog of Gen8. Can you say that there is a graphical thing going on with Call of Duty ? It is obviously a non factor. As such you could deduct that Call of Duty does not fly on its graphics, or gamers would find it a more imortant factor than what I can see from those statistics
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:22:45 UTC from web-
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:23:16 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
@mrmattimation Exactly, you can dress up a piece of crap with as many bells and whistles as you want but at the end of the day it's still a piece of crap, just with some bells and whistles.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:03:16 UTC from web
-
-
@northernnarwhal One man's Destiny is another man's Euro Truck Simulator. Point being that oppinions differ a LOT on those topics.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:00:13 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Basically ask yourself this when playing a game: If I were to be playing this game with the graphical capabilities of 10 years ago, would it still be fun? If no, you probably need to reevaluate the core gameplay.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:02:10 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal From neither a gamer's perspective nor a marketing perspective is that a good question. Perhaps for a developer it is though, but I am not one of them. The question that matters to gamers is "Is it fun". The question that matters for artists is "is this my vision". And the question for the publisher is "will this sell well ?". John Romero made my point rather well with all that Daikatana nonsense in 2000.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:06:45 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Stop straw manning me. You're missing the point entirely. The question here is whether or not games can stand on their own with just their graphical capabilities, because games can be incredibly fantastic and fun and interesting and not sell well at all. Ico is a brilliant game with intelligent design and unique gameplay but sold horribly because there wasn't a huge market for it when it came out. So is it not fun because it sold poorly, of course not. When discussing the merits of games sales has nothing to do with them.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:14:24 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal Oh that's a laugh. You are trying to undermine me by stating that graphical fidelity is not as important as gamplay or story while here I am saying that they have to work together or else you get a game that plays like the rear end of a donkey. Tell you what though, show me a genre of games ( or names of games ) that can purely stand on story or gameplay or graphic fidelity and I'll gladly tell you that graphic fidelity is not important :) Oh and I am talking about actual games, not sandboxes with a few arbitrary rules thrown into them, or books.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:20:04 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Binding of Isaac, Super Meat Boy, Tetris
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:21:36 UTC from web-
@ellistia Oooh, I love Binding of Isaac. It pretty much handles difficulty the same way a game like Dark Souls does where it's all about the player and their growth, which is really fun.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:25:49 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal oh this game was free on the psplus sometime ago, bui didnt feellikepaying the plus
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:27:56 UTC from web-
@mushi Demon's Souls was free on PSPlus, though I don't know if Dark Souls was ever free on it.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:28:30 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal hm, i own a physical copy of demons souls, but havnt touched it since got tired of getting kiled by the armored spider
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:33:32 UTC from web-
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:35:35 UTC from web
-
@northernnarwhal my fried said he'd lend methe gameif i wantto ay, but nah, i will beat someof th gamesi own first
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:37:54 UTC from web-
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:41:43 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
@critialcloudkicker I have examples I could give but at this point I'm honestly just to cut off the conversation. It's clear it's not going anywhere or will lead to any kind of of resolution and is just going on to the point of ad nauseum, so I'm going to stop here.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:23:01 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal I am sorry, it was not my intent to cause nausea to anyone. I actually find this quite interesting.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:23:34 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker We're honestly just going in circles and it's clear this isn't going to get anywhere.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:24:08 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal Kinda like every big issue in the world right now. And there are tons. Protip : Stay away from PCMR ( Personal Computer Master Race ) people, their blatant Console attacking hardware licking attitudes even make ME nauseous.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:26:37 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Honestly, if the game's good I don't care what platform it is on.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:27:15 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal But on PC you can do 17 player multiplayer instead of just 16!!! ANd the graphics are like 5% better!!! And it's cheaper somehow!!!!!
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:29:41 UTC from web-
@mrmattimation Thank you for enlightening me sir!!! I shall end my heathen console ways and join the PC master race, as it is the way of MLG truth!!!
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:31:04 UTC from web
-
-
@northernnarwhal Actually there is a full fledged war going on out there on what platform holds what titles hostage/randsom ( randsom because, never trust Ubisoft ) . I myself have been laughed at a few times just last week because "harhar, stupid PC fanboi ! GTA5 has been delayed for PC !!!"
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:31:26 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Not like I care, and I think people that do legitimately care about that kind of stuff are idiots.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:34:47 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal What if I say that I legitimately once said ( prior to release ) "Well, if Destiny really is going to be what it is cranked up to be I'll probably see it on PC at a later date since Activision never stopped to bring out a PC release once it sees dollar signs for eyelids", would I be part idiot ?
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:40:21 UTC from web-
@critialcloudkicker Only if you criticized people who got the console version.
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:42:03 UTC from web-
@northernnarwhal No but I criticized their controller because ( quote ) "I litterally can't use sticks for presision at all. It's cool you guys can, but unless if I am flying a helicopter, jet, or possibly a tank, I'd prefer a mouse and keyboard". And I do not think that counts
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 19:49:32 UTC from web
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Sunday, 25-Jan-15 18:08:16 UTC from web
-
-
-
