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I still make an amount of pony jokes and brony jokes but I do have a somewhat understanding audience to them. Way I see it, if you can't make fun of it once in a while you're just going to become one of those anti-reactionary grapes.
Monday, 21-Sep-15 01:06:52 UTC from web-
@awlelwa there's a difference between being anti-reactionary and being unable to take a joke, though. You have to realize the difference between malicious jokes and stereotypes, and harmless ones.
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@rarity Yes there is a difference, and do not anti-reactionaries look at the two and see no difference.
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@awlelwa I mean, mostly I guess? I consider myself anti-reactionary but I know that not everything vaguely offensive is evil.
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@rarity I always thought that the majority rules in that kind of case. So maybe is my problem, with assuming.
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@awlelwa I just think more time should be spent rooting out real subtle systematic things like flying the Confederate Flag or making black women out to be violent and loud, as opposed to policing people who use words like "moron" or Potato Knishes.
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@rarity The former is as much batcave if not moreso, as there can't be much reason to do such things publicly besides looking for a reaction.
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@awlelwa Yeah, I think at this point no one is truly ignorant as to the nature of the Confederate Flag. So people either full well know the racism in flying it, and are pieces of trash, or they are willfully ignorant as say "it's just muh heritage", and are still pieces of trash. When I was younger, I thought it was a part of my heritage, but then I learned as stopped seeing it as anything but racist.
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@rarity Yeah, both are unhealthy by nature but prioritizing the larger systematic political issues is very important
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@rarity All I really see is inaccuracy as it's a wartime jack. Then again I never considered myself an American.
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@awlelwa the point is, is that ALL it is was a naval jack in the civil war. If people really cared about their heritage, they'd fly the actual flag of the CSA. The Battle Flag only came into prominence when the KKK in the Civil rights movement adopted it. So, the modern use of it obviously has ties to racism. Yet people deny it
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@rarity Exactly, you get it. I kind of get it when state flags used to incorporate the jack into their design, if let's say the idea was to not forget the worse parts of their past else they're doomed to repeat it. Yet it being a symbol on par with contested state banners is just idiotic.
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@awlelwa It always seemed to me that the state flags incorporating the jack wasn't a reminder of the history and how bad it was, more of a subtle "F you" to the north tbh. Kind of like how Mississippi courthouses face south, as a "kiss my ass" to the north. like this "The Georgia state flag that was used from 1956 to 2001 featured a prominent Confederate battle flag and was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, a World War II veteran and an attorney who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[4] " http://rainbowdash.net/attachment/827361
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@rarity Something told me that was the real reason but I was hoping it wouldn't be. When entire governments condone that kind of spite it's incredibly sad. Maybe 'representing its people' too much in that regard.
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@awlelwa this is why the US needs stronger education on these issues, and honestly implemented on a federal level as much as I hate to say that. If not, Texas will keep teaching the bare minimum on slavery and nothing at all on the prison slavery that followed. Did you ever wonder why the pre-civil war stereotype for black people was of a servile group who loved nothing more to work for white people, but nowadays black people are stereotyped to be violent and impulsive? It's because they needed an excuse to arrest black people by the droves to fill prison labor camps (a practice that continues today)
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@rarity Huh, that rather rings a reminder to how a certain peoples were portrayed to me back home.
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@awlelwa society really needs a hard reset tbh. I see hope in Rojava but worry US imperialism will corrupt it
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@rarity But you're implying the Americans will make the same mistake as usual in regards to foreign policy!!
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@awlelwa ugh, I know. On one hand, the Kurds could REALLY use the help of the US in fighting Daesh, and the US could have made a REALLY bad choice in supporting the power-hungry rebels. But accepting help from the US means being weak to their influence. At least we're not supporting the dictator Assad like Putin
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@rarity I really laughed when hearing of Russian support being sent to Syria. Oh how it was 50 years ago! And 40, 30.... 20... wait
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@awlelwa I really don't get Putin's government. It seems like he holds too much Cold War bitterness, and does whatever he feels is best for Russian power without giving a single thought to the benefits of alliance with the EU or US.
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@rarity I mean, the dude WAS a high-ranking KGB agent during the Cold War, and only the second president to serve after the wall fell. In his mind, the west destroyed the regime that made him powerful in the first place.
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@rarity I don't know how much he himself feels over the Cold War beforehand but America and Europe trying to cherry on Russia for the last century in its entirety (common viewpoint) does resonate with the people still, and it's either act on that view or risk another upheaval.
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@awlelwa no, I totally get the anti-West sentiment! Without interference, the USSR probably would have turned out a lot better for the people (I mean look at Cuba, even with the US embargo). But I think if Russia is to thrive they need to stop putting their eggs in the wrong baskets. Or at least stop grapeing off the US so much, because that'll just end up with more US meddling. Just, less imperialism, less support of dictators.
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@rarity This sort of thing was up for debate shortly after the so called fall of the curtain. It quickly went away with the involvement in Yugoslavia, also the fact that Yeltsin was pretty hated.
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@awlelwa On one hand I understand the need Russia has for a strong leader to do right by the interests of the people, who can make Russia a strong nation. If Putin wants to bring Russia to glory again, though, he can't make enemies of the entire world. The last thing anyone needs is another Cold War, and I don't think Russia wins in that anyway. Either be the biggest kid on the block(Which I don't think Russia can do with the West firmly in America's fist), or play nice. I will admit I'm biased though because even though I wish the USSR could have succeeded for the good of everyone, the current government is getting involved on the wrong side of conflicts. Support of Assad is unforgivable for me.
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@rarity I genuinely think that if Putin's government tried to play a LITTLE bit nicer with the west, they could become very powerful and prosperous.
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@rarity Well we're both biased in this. I still kind of see what the west doing is trying to stick its nose in where it doesn't belong but I don't see at all how the former republics of its empire can retain their nationhood otherwise. Who started the Cold War is a chicken-or-egg situation far as I'm concerned, at least this one.
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@awlelwa oh, I agree about the nose-sticking thing. I'm far from a supporter of Western imperialism and exceptionalism, But I'm just speaking pragmatically. Ideally the West would leave Russia alone, but that isn't going to happen, so Russia needs to work around that to succeed. I blame the Cold War on the US unequivocally. The USSR had just won WWII for the West for apple sakes, America should have been kissing Stalin's feet, but since the powers that be in the US decided that Communism was the next Big Scary Thing, it needed to be stamped out. Some gratefulness from America huh
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@rarity To be fair Stalin was projecting himself and his Red Army as a threat to a very vulnerable Europe, namely because he was. The more I think of it, on the subject of more concurrent affairs regarding the west and Russia, the whole thing was brilliantly orchestrated thusfar by both sides. Now the lines of the enemy are becoming more clear to us both.
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@awlelwa Yes, Stalin fell victim to power in turning his eyes West, true. Leaders in general need to become more comfortable with making what they have the best it can be, and the rest of the world follows their example. I mean, look at Scandinavia and their social democracy. It works so well for them, the frontrunner for a major US party wants to bring it here! A Civ "cultural victory" really. I think the USSR could have turned out the same way if Stalin wasn't so power hungry.
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@rarity I don't think so, namely as a lot of different peoples had to be subjugated twice over in order to get where it was before the war. Then again I could be putting more emphasis on the cultural clashes of imperial Russia than there really were.
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@awlelwa I will admit I know little of Imperial Russia, but it seems to me that the cultural battles going on in Russia dated back centuries and it's hard to place blame on anyone from the last century. It's impossible to have a landmass that big united under one nation without groups getting squashed, as mangoed up as that is, so any regime change would just involve those people getting shuffled around more. That's probably a terrible oversimplification though
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@rarity If anything it's an adequate summarisation of what really goes on. The reasoning I have behind thinking it would have kept the Soviet ideal back is that the 1905 Revolution opened a lot of those ethnic conflicts up after in some cases, a century of dormancy.
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@awlelwa revolution always brings out the worst in most people tbh. When a barfight starts, a man uses the ensuing chaos to get a few punches in against the guy who stole his girlfriend. And as we're seeing in Syria, the war has OTHER Jihadi groups like Jabbhat al-Nusra fighting AGAINST Daesh, but still trying to establish their own oppressive government.
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@awlelwa Yeah, it is. I just really wish the USSR had gotten a fair shake, had a chance to help its oppressed minorites. You always see polls now about how people in former Soviet states think the collapse of the Union was a mistake (although conspicuously the Balkian and Caucasus states are often missing from those polls... quite telling really). Good things could have been done in the right hands, without Western interference. Although at this point, it's all hand-wringing. We all need to look forward and learn from the terrible mistakes made by the USSR
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@rarity did you know that th Soviet Union took Mongolia out of the 16th century and gave it infastructure? That's one good thing I think it did, was give modern infastructure to lands that otherwise would not have it. In Caucasia at least we always say better dead than a slave by ant means. But real Caucasians are hot blooded and embittered peoples. That is where my bias lies most.
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@awlelwa Honestly I wish I /could/ focus less on playing devil's advocate for the USSR all the time. They did a LOT wrong, some would say more harm than good, but being the largest attempt at communism I feel it's important to highlight their positives, and condemn the atrocities without making it out to be a villain. I'd much rather talk about Cuba, or Vietnam, or the Spanish revolutionaries. But everyone knows the USSR and it's an easier talking point. I can promise you though, when I bring my global Ancom revolution to bear, I'd rather have the revolution collapse under me than oppress anyone.
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@rarity you're more knowledgeable on it than anyone else i've had the pleasure of conversing with in a great while, that and concurrent world news. Devil's advocate is an easy thing to play once you're past the threshold of doing it the first time. I used to do so for America when living in Russia, as I felt I had the advantage of living here.
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@awlelwa I love history, and I love politics. What's especially interesting to me is how history /affects/ politics, since the decisions our leaders make today are entirely based upon the choices made hundreds and hundreds of years ago. All of human history has led up to the current political climate, I'd feel at fault if I wasn't as informed as I could be.
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@rarity The thing about the faults of the USSR is that it made them an easy target, especially when propagated through Western media. It's essentially that "us vs them" mentality that allowed principles like McCarthyism to take off in the 1950s, "Stalin ordered people to be shot in trenches and Tukhachevsky used poison gas on civilians. Now do you want communism in your America?" so essentially a lot of the ideas and groundwork for the philosophy of communism organized through generations of political unrest of the working class with unfair division of wealth and state became a buzzword for 50s conservative America to identify who they believed to be Bad Guys. So historically the association of "communism = bad" kind of stems from the politics of that era and how they impacted people who would in turn go into politics, and Russia's continually shaky relationship with the West only fueled that.
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@northernnarwhal As far as I can see, almost every problem pointed out with communism was more an effect of totalitarianism.
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@scribus Pretty much, yeah. Most contemporary criticisms of communism are really just masked criticisms of authoritarian state and autocracy.
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@scribus well, you could argue that totalitarianism is necessary to bring about communism. some people say that "dictatorship of the proletariat" means a dictatorship run BY the proletariat, but that doesn't really make sense since that would just be true stateless communism anyway, the people ruling themselves. I always interpreted Marx as meaning that there needed to be strong rulers in a socialist state to transition to Communism. Of course I'm an AnCom so I reject the concept of DotP, but I mean you could say that Lenin and Stalin we're staying true to the concept.
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