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It's sort of a happy coincidence that individual changing stalls were already becoming a thing because of millennial body weirdness, it just so happened that that is a potential solution to the locker room issue.
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@moonman As nice as it is to have individual changing stalls, giving so much thought and effort to this crap is a waste. I'm all in for privacy, but they should do it for the sake of improving conditions for the general public, not to make special snowflakes feel cared for. Male and female changing rooms were all that we needed for decades and no one minded, effort should be put into making people grow skins, rather than catering to them.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:29:35 UTC from web -
@moonman Millennials are a hard thing to define. The US Census only recognizes Baby Boomers because you can actually track them statistically.
@Nerthos If people want it and there is very little probem with it other than ethics, change may be a good choice.
I mean, I can try to make a comparison as well.
We've had Black and white water fountains for years and people were fine with that.
But that feels like a cheap blow. It is hardly for showing people "Hey we are giving you special treatment" and more for "we recognize how awkward it is for you to conduct such a business and find it ok to simply go into a different room to papaya in"
I find such a small effort trivial and all the effort put into stopping it really blowing everything out of proportions.Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:38:39 UTC from web-
@metaltao Or, it is for giving people special teatment. I mean, It's why we have the bathrooms the way we do in the first place no?
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:40:59 UTC from web -
@metaltao @nerthos it would be a massive expense to retrofit all existing locker rooms to be individual stalls. less bad for new construction.
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@moonman Yep. It'd be inexpensive to instead of using solid walls they just used curtains though.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:46:44 UTC from web
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@metaltao Yeah, but there's no real physical difference between ethnicities, yet there is considerable difference between a male and a female. And in an age of widespread lack of respect and a "screw the rules" mentality, unisex changing rooms are a /really/ bad idea. Transexuals might not feel at ease in changing rooms as they are today, but the actual risk of anything happening, and their numbers, are quite low. The risk of something happenning with unisex changing rooms is really high, and we don't need to encourage kids to early sexual development any more than they already are. As for catering to people who ask for things that are more than needed, the main issue with it is that they'll ask for more and more and more and keep feeling entitled, while not budging will cause them to get frustrated and eventually give up.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:45:25 UTC from web-
@nerthos @metaltao >Yeah, but there's no real physical difference between ethnicities
wrong
i can name a few that are undeniable: melanin production, skull shape, hair, diet
less obvious things are iq, physical ability, emotional traits
not getting into the debate on sex but don't spread lies-
@delores I meant non-superficial ones. They look different in complexion but the innards are the same, unlike males and females.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:49:56 UTC from web-
@nerthos nope, they're different inside too. different dna from amount of neanderthal blood, muscles work and heal differently, etc
denying difference in human race is like denying difference in dog breeds. yes, you can say that they physically look the same. but if you look into it there is many other differences that take place inside the body-
@delores Those differences, while real, are irrelevant to the topic of changing rooms.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:01:39 UTC from web-
@nerthos like i said, i don't care about the changing rooms in this instance. im calling you out on spreading misinformation.
the truth does not change depending on the topic, you know?-
@delores Hey, I have no issue with you being racist, but the point is that you're nitpicking as by "there's no real physical difference between ethnicities" I meant that regardess of race men have two legs, two arms, a head, a torso and a phallus, women have two legs, two arms, a head a torso and a Fluffle Puff.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:05:31 UTC from web-
@nerthos its racist to point out facts?
if you are choosing to lie to be vague, than i could say that there is no difference between man and woman because both are living breathing organisms and that's what i originally meant as stated just now-
@delores This argument is stupid.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:07:33 UTC from web-
@nerthos I find it stupid as well. You already have the belief of Binary. Anything pushing towards disproving it would be moot.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:08:24 UTC from web-
@metaltao Maybe in a few hundred years I'll take the whole nonbinary thing seriously, but not for now.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:09:47 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:10:11 UTC from web
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@nerthos and that is why we properly construct our arguments without lying when its convenient
also realizing when you are wrong and continuing on from there with correction :/-
@delores I wasn't arguing muscles and appearance, I was arguing genitalia.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:10:42 UTC from web-
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@delores Hahaha
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:11:51 UTC from web
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@delores @nerthos Somewhere down the line, kids started to e educated to think lying to preserve someone's feelings is ok. This was intended for dumb banana like ``I like your Hair" or "Your shirt is nice". Now we have millennials thinking that facts are racist because they're not nice. This is in America, at least.
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@delores Yo, Del, you are making the wrong point to convince him. He is already up for Gender Binary, all points made for it would be moot.
You are doing good up until recently mateWednesday, 11-May-16 04:12:36 UTC from web-
@metaltao You say that as if it's such a terrible thing
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:16:08 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:16:36 UTC from web
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@augustus @nerthos @delores define massive, there's not a single characteristic of any race that isn't held in some subset of any other race.
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@moonman @nerthos @delores >some subset
massive = "measurable and meaningful/has consequences to society"
also race is a subset to begin with, traits being spread out in disparate quantities in other groups doesn't negate a group average. i.e. Chinese people being on average shorter than Danes doesn't magically become irrelevant if you select a subset of tall Chinese people who are all individually taller than them
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@nerthos I would first like to argue the point of physical difference between genders. With ambiguous genitalia, that kind of puts who is what into question. Men born with labial folds and women with other such random constructions.
I don't really know of any statistically viable report that says Unisex changing rooms are dangerous to any group. I mean, they have existed for a long long time and most offenses occur outside when people are alone unlike in a public bathroom. I mean, you have locked stalls placed outside a public location. What is someone who wants to do any harm going to accomplish there? A bar is more likely.
Also, I would like to deny your proposition of a slippery slope.
Rarely has it applied to law, but to upbringing. It is more of a childhood thing and not something that is commonly applied to law.
The more reasonable the more likely it is to be passed. Things get less and less likely over time and end or flat line as the call it.Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:53:25 UTC from web-
@metaltao There's no reliable evidence that unisex bathrooms have caused any of the widespread problems opponents of them claim they would.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:56:40 UTC from web-
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:57:09 UTC from web
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@metaltao I am sure that some right-wing ideologue managed to distort that into "mass sexual assaults."
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:01:46 UTC from web
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@metaltao Unisex changing rooms, baths, and such things exists, yes, but in places with a culture that makes it reasonable, but if you try to apply it to a place with a different culture it works terribly. An example of cultural differences making the same thing have completely different results is social plans where the state gives monetary aid to individuals: in switzerland it raised production, education and job satisfaction; whilst in my country the same thing caused political clientelism and a refusal of many individuals to do any meaningful work. Your point of people with medical conditions like hermaphrodites or malformations is valid, and such people should be allowed a more private space for changing and showering than people with no conditions. People with normal bodies don't have any real need for such accomodations though.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 03:59:58 UTC from web-
@nerthos I have found no articles on Switzerland on the subject yet the production makes sense. Making more bathrooms means you are making more stuff. So, I prove it dubious what you claim.
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:03:11 UTC from web-
@metaltao For ref http://pny.lv/0fsjc
Wednesday, 11-May-16 04:03:30 UTC from web
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