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Petition for a second referendum on EU membership owing to the incredibly narrow margin https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Saturday, 25-Jun-16 11:43:00 UTC from web-
@ceruleanspark This sounds very reasonable.
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@ceruleanspark What's the point of that ? Now I do not know if everyone was forced to cast a vote. But I dare to bet various parts of my body that the result of the first referendum would be a lot different if it was a more sunny day and there was an ice-cream truck outside of every building where you could vote.
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@critialcloudkicker Because a huge number of leave voters realise that they were--and I have no qualms saying this--cherrying stupid
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@tiffany ~Qualm : an uneasy feeling of doubt, worry, or fear, especially about one's own conduct; a misgiving.
I agree to that, but do you really need a new referendum for that ? To hold a referendum on that scale requires a rather huge pile of resources.
Also I heard something about Scotland ( http://pny.lv/0ln66 ... pretty much the sea of yellow there ) thinking about leaving Great Brittain because they all seem to like Europe.
So now it is up to the politicians to decide what is best. Leave the EU and possibly lose Scotland, or just declare the referendum to be too close to count. Both options have possible long term effects, both options have pretty sides aswell as ugly sides. -
@critialcloudkicker "We" voted out because the government thought it was what people wanted. In the space of several hours that stopped being the case. I get that it can be likened to a "you made your bed, now lie in it" scenario, but this isn't us being petty. This is us wanting to be fiscally secure, with opportunities for ourselves and our future generations.
And for what it's worth, the politicians are awful, disgusting people. They actively lied to their supporters, and they're doing all of this because they're bigoted, glorified sewage incarnate. I would sooner have my country overturned and set on fire for the good of the people than live under the slimy iron fist of Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson. -
@tiffany I see where you are coming from. But I was not talking about a "you made your bed, now lie in it" scenario. I know all too well how the common man can be forked over completely by people with political power. No, what I meant was is that I think the referendum results were too close to really say anything. Also there is the thing about the age-gap to vote ratio.
Anyway, the country has spoken, and now it is up to the politicians to do something with it. Just flatout throwing money at the problem in the form of a new referendum might not be the smartest thing to do. At any rate, I hope it will work out well. -
@critialcloudkicker Having a second referendum would probably only be the fourth-stupidest thing to happen this week. Admittedly I don't know how much such a thing costs so feel free to enlighten me, but Brexit is not representative of what the people want, nor what we deserve, quite frankly. You say "the country has spoken," but if they were to speak again they would say something much different
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@tiffany I do not have any real figures, but it was about 4.000.000.000 Euro according to sources I heard. Which kinda makes sense as the Scottish Independance referendum did cost 2.000.000.000 Pounds more than estimated.
And yes "the country has spoken". You would be stupid to just ignore the results of something that did cost so much money. The least you can learn involves something about how people are coerced into voting for something only to regret it the next day, leading into talks of a new referendum.
Ergo, The first referendum was valuable, but possibly did not have the value that people who wanted it were looking for. -
@critialcloudkicker The referendum was the antithesis of valuable, you pube
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@tiffany Even if they did nothing but learn that the referendum was not valuable, then you learned that having a referendum is not a good idea. Now I do not know what is going on in the heads of Brittish Politicians ( and frankly my head hurts trying to read some articles... poppa pig... ) but... yeah lets go hold a new referendum because it turned out to have such valuable results :+
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@critialcloudkicker You know what, you're right. A second referendum would actually be really stupid because I would rather remove all the bolts from a barge with my teeth than risk this happening a second time.
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@tiffany Yes :)
However, that does not mean you shouldn't pressure the noses of your politicians back into this referendum and all the "who wants a recount !"-ism's that come with it. Even if just to show that age-group 18-25 and possibly 25-32 is way more involved with this topic than other age groups, and age group 18-25 did primarily vote in favour of the EU
( I can't remember the actual age groups in that result thingie I saw, but it hardly matters in this context ) -
@critialcloudkicker It's not even a recount--the fact of the matter is people have learned that they'd made a mistake in voting to leave, and the Brexit campaign was based on flat-out lies and bigotry.
Even IF I were to agree with you that we should stick with the choice we collectively made, it's STILL unfair because the promises Farage and co. made were wholly made up so that they could systematically destroy our country. I will accept any views one might have about democracy, or patriotism, or even the idea that other races are inferior (I passionately hate that notion, but for the sake of this argument I will accept it nonetheless). I will not accept any idea that says we should accept these lying, manipulative buckets of snot and hatred have earned the right to run this country. They haven't. We deserve better (again, I'm not necessarily basing this off of what you said, but it's my final point regardless) -
@tiffany "Who wants a recount" was a butchering of the song "who let the dogs out" a couple of years ago when there was a lot of noize surrounding fraudulent votes in the states. I probably was not really clear when I said that, my appologies.
I do not think that you should "stick to a collectively made choice" at all. However I do think that what has happened should be taken into account. In this instance, if what you say is true, that you were lied to by manipulative buckets of snot and hatred, and still only managed to get about a 52% of Great Brittain to actually vote in favour of leaving the EU. That should tell the whole story then, doesn't it ? -
@critialcloudkicker If you're implying that the story is that 52% of us were idiots who risked everything just to get rid of some Muslims then yes
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@tiffany Wait, how does voting yes on Brexit get rid of Muslims ? I see how it would stop the intake, but those already in would not simply disappear like some magicians smoke trick.
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@critialcloudkicker Okay, so, basically: a big issue in the UK is the idea that immigration is going to negatively affect us and our ability to get jobs (research has shown that immigrants have little effect on our job market or our economy). What political parties like UKIP do is invoke scaremongering, telling these people that Muslims and other non-British citizens are the cause of all their problems (sounds familiar right?). In essence, Brexit was used by UKIP and others to say to people "this will solve the problem of having too many immigrants in the country," and so most of Brexit's legitimate voters voted to leave because they dislike ideas like immigration, multiculturalism, or essentially anything to do with people who aren't British. UKIP are *notoriously* racist, and so are their followers. The singular reason people voted to leave is because they hate other cultures and think that the economy would be better off with our population locked in.
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@tiffany Oh, yeah, I heard about UKIP, Not only because it somewhat transates to "you chicken" in Dutch but also on some semi-underground 9-gag sites comparing their members and banners to some very well known German ultranationals.
Now I am not sure whether it is because I am growing up and starting to look for it, or politics are starting to become crazier and crazier on a planetary scale. -
@critialcloudkicker I'm convinced politics is a cycle that goes from not good to bad to awful ad infinitum. Either time is cyclical or humans simply aren't designed to have government
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@tiffany Hmmyeah, I really think that you can blame things like Social Media and Social Justice for the perversion of things like politics and justice. But I have my own reasons and experience as to why ( aswell as a few from my friends abroad ). I guess the collective dawn of the internet as a whole might have something to do with it actually. We should probably grant it time to become stabilized. Logic will hopefully prevail eventually
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@critialcloudkicker Even with the world quite literally at our fingertips it's hard to see the big picture of things I suppose
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@tiffany At other times you think you are backed by all the logic in the world and it turns out that you forgot to take into account something that undermines more than half of your arguement.
And this is why I find debate clubs so funny. You get assigned a random thing to be either for or against, and then you suddenly have someone from Russia and one person from Lithuania discussing something like the NSA and the spying on cityzens, of which you can clearly see they both know nothing about.
Meanwhile on social media you would have no idea of the agenda of that particular person. -
@critialcloudkicker Well, some people like to make their agendas pretty clear
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@tiffany And some people are blind. And if you manage to mobilize the blind, then you have a flock.
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